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Hello all,
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote..."The primary reason for this [Fellowship Meeting cancellation], was to ease the financial burden on the churches and pastors, and stop the monthly disruption of their schedules." This quote shows that Senior Pastor Kekel is unaware that Fellowship Meetings were never a monthly requirement. Like I wrote, he has no oversight of the churches outside of Graham, and much of his own writings bear this out. Those of us in the work of the Lord out in the field never had Fellowship Meeting the month before, of, and after a Conference (this was policy). Therefore, there were only 6 per year (1 or 2 of which we hosted). And sometimes less if there were mandatory Minister's Seminars we had to go to.
Gregory writes..."Thanks for your “never-been-there-done-that” second-hand insight. Based only on your logic: Why does our Cult still have Conferences?"
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote..."The primary reason for this [Fellowship Meeting cancellation], was to ease the financial burden on the churches and pastors, and stop the monthly disruption of their schedules." This quote shows that Senior Pastor Kekel is unaware that Fellowship Meetings were never a monthly requirement. Like I wrote, he has no oversight of the churches outside of Graham, and much of his own writings bear this out. Those of us in the work of the Lord out in the field never had Fellowship Meeting the month before, of, and after a Conference (this was policy). Therefore, there were only 6 per year (1 or 2 of which we hosted). And sometimes less if there were mandatory Minister's Seminars we had to go to.
Gregory writes..."Thanks for your “never-been-there-done-that” second-hand insight. Based only on your logic: Why does our Cult still have Conferences?"
If they have to get rid of only one, get rid of Conferences. Being gone for a week (or more) twice a year is much more disruptive than 3 Saturdays per year; or am I missing something?
Let’s crunch some numbers. The total cost for the bi-annual Conferences is always more expensive (loss of pay for two weeks, gas, food for two weeks [3 meals per day for 2 or more people], hotel, possible car rental, and 8 or more offerings) than 6 fellowship meetings a year—1 or 2 of which we hosted, so didn’t have to go anywhere; plus, for the meetings we hosted, we could still get our soul-winning done before (or after); so the ‘disruption’ average was reduced to about 3 Saturdays per year. Some churches even had their normal Saturday evening service after Fellowship Meeting activities were over (when they hosted).
One Conference usually cost us about $2,500 (gas, food, offerings, hotel, income loss); whereas a Fellowship Meeting costs us about $75 each (gas, food, offering). So, 2 Conferences cost about $5,000 per year; whereas 3 Fellowship Meetings cost about $225 per year.
What about Senior Pastor Kekel’s assertion that Fellowship Meetings are a "disruption to scheduled Church activities?" How would he know? Is this what he heard?
Continuing, the score is Fellowship Meetings cause about 3 disruptions per year, Conference causes about 10 (or more) disruptions per year (this does not include twice daily prayer meetings or Monday night dinners, or the regular daily dinners at the Servicmen's Homes, or fellowship after Service; so the "disruptions" could be as many as over 50 for 2 conferences per year). Senior Pastor Kekel may not know this since he has been administratively called by God to Graham for the past 28 years, and doesn't have any oversight of the churches outside of Graham.
Plus (looking back), I always got more lasting spiritual sustenance out of Fellowship Meetings...mainly because I was being preached to (not at), and fellow-shipping with (not for) people that were in the trenches (people just like me), who had even more time than me applying what they had been taught (as opposed to those who only ever teach/visit, and do there own thing). As opposed to the "Graham Hibernators" who only come out of their den twice a year to yell "We are WINNING" at the proportionally few faithful who show up for a Conference; while using Senior Pastor Kekel’s "sound-system-ministry" microphone.
Plus (looking back), I always got more lasting spiritual sustenance out of Fellowship Meetings...mainly because I was being preached to (not at), and fellow-shipping with (not for) people that were in the trenches (people just like me), who had even more time than me applying what they had been taught (as opposed to those who only ever teach/visit, and do there own thing). As opposed to the "Graham Hibernators" who only come out of their den twice a year to yell "We are WINNING" at the proportionally few faithful who show up for a Conference; while using Senior Pastor Kekel’s "sound-system-ministry" microphone.
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| Over God's Heritage since 1969. |
Senior Pastor Kekel also writes… ""Ahh, whatever happened to those wonderful 'Fellowship Meetings?'" some watery-eyed person would ask. This question seems to come up often, but maybe people have forgotten the things they 'didn't like' about them."
Though my eyes water at times, there was nothing to forget...Because we liked Fellowship Meeting. Regular Fellowship Meetings were always a blessing to my personal growth and Ministry. Can I get a witness? Plus, it was the only opportunity available to get to know my peers in Ministry in a professional setting.
I was never a helper, nor had I ever had a helper. So it was great working with other Ministers to accomplish something for God; even if it was just for one service on 6 (or less) Saturdays per year.
I was never a helper, nor had I ever had a helper. So it was great working with other Ministers to accomplish something for God; even if it was just for one service on 6 (or less) Saturdays per year.
The more I read what Senior Pastor Kekel writes about our Cult-of-choice, the more I realize he and I weren’t in the same Organization. He was administratively assigned to Graham, while we pursued Ministry challenges around the globe.
I didn’t have a problem with the myriad rules, didn’t try to circumvent the system or look for loopholes, and didn’t undermine Senior Pastor Davis’ desires and authority in my personal life and Ministry. Maybe because I didn't have as much free time as he does. Maybe because I am a team player.
Of course I didn’t marry the founder’s daughter, nor was I stuck in Graham pursuing an Administrative calling (why is he the Senior Pastor again). So, I had more pressing Ministry concerns than what guitar to buy (or make) next, and finalizing the blue-prints on my next Mansion.
Senior Pastor Kekel continues…"The original intention was to give members of those churches to have (sic) a chance to see that there were other churches like theirs and that having church together was very exciting; they were to have that same 'old time' feeling. "
The original intent of Fellowship Meeting never changed for my family during our 11 years of Ministry. Fellowship meeting remained exciting for us and our congregations.
The ‘only’ main reason I can think of, as to why they stopped fellowship meeting, is to better control the flow of information. They can't have Ministers getting together and talking without any way of monitoring them. Actually they can; but psychologist have proven that if someone is untrustworthy, they don't trust others. So then, if you are disloyal, you think others are also, and that they can't be trusted; hence the cancellation of Fellowship Meetings. This is another reactive solution to stop the hemorrhage of personal from NTCC. Don't change, don't repent; just exert more control. Or, if something isn't working, keep doing more of the same.
NTCC is changing, just not in the way the leadership needs you to believe. Our Cult is just getting more worldly. All of Senior Pastor Kekel’s myriad reasons (excuses) never hold up under even the most minimal examination.
It is obvious from Senior Pastor Kekel’s article that he has no firsthand knowledge of the positive dynamics of a monthly fellowship meeting for those of us out in the field. As is proven by his statement…"I remember one many years ago at Rev. Espinoza's (RIP) Tacoma church with a bunch of us out on the front porch, just singing and having church; a pleasant memory." His only point of reference for the past 28+ years is anything that has happened local to Graham.
Senior Pastor Kekel continues…"The original intention was to give members of those churches to have (sic) a chance to see that there were other churches like theirs and that having church together was very exciting; they were to have that same 'old time' feeling. "
The original intent of Fellowship Meeting never changed for my family during our 11 years of Ministry. Fellowship meeting remained exciting for us and our congregations.
The ‘only’ main reason I can think of, as to why they stopped fellowship meeting, is to better control the flow of information. They can't have Ministers getting together and talking without any way of monitoring them. Actually they can; but psychologist have proven that if someone is untrustworthy, they don't trust others. So then, if you are disloyal, you think others are also, and that they can't be trusted; hence the cancellation of Fellowship Meetings. This is another reactive solution to stop the hemorrhage of personal from NTCC. Don't change, don't repent; just exert more control. Or, if something isn't working, keep doing more of the same.
NTCC is changing, just not in the way the leadership needs you to believe. Our Cult is just getting more worldly. All of Senior Pastor Kekel’s myriad reasons (excuses) never hold up under even the most minimal examination.
It is obvious from Senior Pastor Kekel’s article that he has no firsthand knowledge of the positive dynamics of a monthly fellowship meeting for those of us out in the field. As is proven by his statement…"I remember one many years ago at Rev. Espinoza's (RIP) Tacoma church with a bunch of us out on the front porch, just singing and having church; a pleasant memory." His only point of reference for the past 28+ years is anything that has happened local to Graham.
Well, he did visit Panama in 2007. The result of which was his sowing of discord between my sister-in-law, me, and Deb. This division continues to this day, and will continue until Senior Pastor Kekel makes this right. Plus, he does still have his "cracked toilet seat" testimony.
Senior Pastor Kekel shares..."FMs should never be a burden. But for some people, everything is a burden." To which I would like to add that for a very select few in the Cult, nothing is a burden for any appreciable length of time.
In summary, Senior Pastor Kekel’s justifications for NTCC's abandoning the need for Fellowship Meeting are…Schedule disruption, jealousy/resentment, and financial burden. All debunked in a few short paragraphs. Again, Senior Pastor Kekel and I weren't in the same Cult; I was completely compliant to it, and didn't view Fellowship Meeting as any kind of burden; while pursing Ministry challenges around the globe.
If you really want to be a blessing, discontinue Conferences (or both).
If you want to be a blessing to yourself...just walk away. You're not getting any younger.
NTCC is Winning, but are you?
Gregory
Senior Pastor Kekel shares..."FMs should never be a burden. But for some people, everything is a burden." To which I would like to add that for a very select few in the Cult, nothing is a burden for any appreciable length of time.
In summary, Senior Pastor Kekel’s justifications for NTCC's abandoning the need for Fellowship Meeting are…Schedule disruption, jealousy/resentment, and financial burden. All debunked in a few short paragraphs. Again, Senior Pastor Kekel and I weren't in the same Cult; I was completely compliant to it, and didn't view Fellowship Meeting as any kind of burden; while pursing Ministry challenges around the globe.
If you really want to be a blessing, discontinue Conferences (or both).
If you want to be a blessing to yourself...just walk away. You're not getting any younger.
NTCC is Winning, but are you?
Gregory
16 comments:
You are dead on! What so seemingly started out as a blessing, turned into another control issue.
Bro, you wouldn't believe the number of people who've called me looking for guidance because they've been royally screwed up by both the HOP and or NTCC!!! I mean folks who have been psychologically messed up royally!!! Every time I start to forget about the sick sadistic NTCC, I get another phone call from someone looking for answers because they can't even think straight anymore because of their involvement with either HOP or the NTCC. Dude, HOP may very well be even worse then the NTCC if that is even possible!!!!!!!!!!! Denis is one sick, sorry jerk and so is Bradine assuming that's how his name is spelled. Denis, Bardine, Kekel, Olson, Davis, Ashmore are absolute menaces to society. They are not good to humanity. This earth would be better off without them.
We all know why they got rid of fellowship meetings. Too much info was getting out about the corrupt leadership and the result was a gradual but continuous mass exodus. And that is exactly why they still allow fellowship meetings "only" in the presents of a control monger overseer. The overseer can dictate what's discussed and talked about. The NTCC leadership is trying to control the perpetual damage that occurs as the result of people talking about how crooked they are.
So what is the best way to accomplish effective damage control? Cult communistic censorship 101. Do your best to prevent people from talking to each other outside the realm of controlled supervision. Rules, rules, rules. No fellowship outside controlled supervision. No giving people rides without permission. Don't have people over to your house unsupervised unless permission has been requested and granted. Only have your mail sent to a Graham cult compound P.O. Box if you are a seminary student. The NTCC leadership specializes in controlling the flow of information. Sit on the wall when dating. No talking with other people from other churches. Can't have more than a few people over for birthday parties. The NTCC leadership i.e. Davis, Kekel, Olson, and Ashmore are a bunch of Control Freak Sickos and Deranged Nut Jobs who are an absolute menace to society!!! I can't stand them. Outside of Denis' sick sad crew, I know of no one who is a sadder excuse of humanity than Davis' sorry crew. This world both carnal and spiritual would be better off without the NTCC or HOP; PERIOD!!!! I can't stand them. Freedom of Religion has gone way to far in the USA. The NTCC and HOP are no better than Hamas, Al Qaeda, or the Taliban. There, get some of that!!!
I remember Davis showing up to a fellowship meeting in Augusta, Ga, back in the 80's. He caught us playing Volleyball and quenched that spirit immediately. We all ended up sitting in the living room with our bibles in silence while Davis stared everyone down. Everyone was to afraid to say anything and Davis didn't seem to have anything to say, so we all just sat there in uncomfortable silence until it was time for service.
I don't remember what the message was about or anything else about that day. It's pretty sad that the only thing that you remember about a fellowship meeting is the founder of the organization rolling up in his recreational vehicle and jacking up your pastor because Christians were playing Volleyball. What a buzz kill. So, I guess sitting in uncomfortable silence was more spiritual than playing volleyball.
Now I guess that lots of games are played in Graham right under ole R-dubs nose and everything is all hunky dory. Kekel has table games at his house which we have seen in pictures during a church BBQ and they play volleyball right out in the open in front of Kekels house. I guess God has changed over the years.
There were usually 2 fellowship meetings per year that Davis would show up to and when he was scheduled to roll into your town, people would turn into the biggest hypocrites you ever seen. All of the sudden it was time to clean the Servicemen's home and get it ready for inspection. By the time Mazza Davis rolled into the plantation we were usually too exhausted to enjoy fellowship meeting if it was being held at our place.
DnA
Mazza Davis is a punk.
There are also many other things that could be done to "ease the financial burden". If my job was to go into a religious organization and determine where money was being wasted and what could be done to optimize the church finances, fellowship meetings would be way down at the bottom of that list.
If Kekel were really concerned about easing the financial burdens on all of the local churches the best place to start is at the top. The majority of the fraud, waste and abuse of finances takes place in Graham. That's were all the money is. If you look at the ntcc like the federal government and the local churches as state or county governments, the members would be the tax payers. If you were trying to "ease the financial burden" on them would you continue to raise their taxes and oppress them? How about placing more regulations on them? Or changing the regulations a bunch of times to make them adapt?
Gregory, you make a great point about conference being much more of a financial burden to people than Fellowship meetings. Conferences are very expensive and I would say that they account for an average of up to 5% of the attendee's annual income.
The best way to ease the financial burden on ntcc members would be to get rid of the 10% cash tithe false doctrine and use a more biblical approach like the 2 cor 9:7 model. How about that? Not of necessity, not grudgingly, not like it's a weekly bill that must be paid, but cheerfully as you purpose in your heart.
Another way they could "ease the burden" would be to allow the ministers in the local churches to have the authority to make financial decisions and to use the money that their own church members have given for specific reasons in a way that would benefit the said local church instead of the tax collectors in Graham.
There are many ways that these financial burdens could be eased, but the problem is that the filthy rich benefactors in Graham would have to take a pay cut in order for this to work.
I think the Church would be a lot better off if it were operated by faith and trust in God, and people were trusted and allowed to give according to what they purpose in their hearts. This will never happen because the higher ups in Graham will never compromise their lavish lifestyles. They have a thing going on that works for their own benefit and they are not about to change it for anyone else's comfort.
DnA
Chief said...
Bro, you wouldn't believe the number of people who've called me looking for guidance because they've been royally screwed up by both the HOP and or NTCC!!!
Chief - I have had it on my heart to find a way to help people from NTCC (HOP welcome too). I have been called to help wounded women. I have a home group and that is the topic. I want to take my past wounds and help others. I have been blessed to help a young girl I work with come thru such terrible, awful, horrendous, abusive past and I'm watching the cocoon open and a beautiful lady of God come from it. I spoke with a pastor at my church I go to - a church with accountability (not one dictatorship head) a church that truly loves God and has REAL people in it - imagine that! Anyway, I told him I wanted to help people from there - the only reason I haven't given my real name yet - I'm working with a few ladies from NTCC that I led in and led into situations they are in. I don't want them to hear anything the rdub or kek's would twist and fill their mind with to turn them. If it happens so be it - it'll be all up to God to help them out - I just still feel like I want to continue to be there in case I can help.
Anyway . . . I've been praying of how I can help. My pastor said you can bring on some seroius spiritual warfare going up against a group like that - be sure this is what you want and what God wants. So my point, if there is anyone in the Graham proximity that needs someone to talk to - whether they have left and need help healing, if they are contemplating leaving, if they are confused and need someone to listen, etc. I'm here in Puyallup. I am willing to meet with anyone, talk over the phone, email, pray with, etc. I want to pass my info on to someone Chief, DnA or someone that would know how to contact me if anyone from this area needs such assistance. My pastor has also agreed to meet with anyone, especially men as I am a single woman (kinda) the coward won't file . . . . he might look bad! So I will be doing the honors one day.
Ok - here and happy to help - let's save another from the grip and to heal so they can find the real love of God!
K,
I commend you on your motives.
The Cult has a persecution complex, an us against the world (and all other Christians) mentality.
Some may Blog and comment for revenge, but I believe those are a very small minority.
It helps me to Blog about my NTCC experience, and it is a duty for me to warn others--just like online commenting about a restaurants bad food, or crummy service--it is a public service.
There are a lot of people, who have been negatively impacted by our Cult, that could use help. So we help them in the ways we can.
There is definitely a need for a full-time ministry targeted to the needs of NTCC survivors in the Graham/Washington area.
My wife and I will be in Washington this month, maybe we can get together.
Sorry to hear about your pending divorce. We each need to do what is personally best for us. The Cult tried to get Deb to leave me in 2007-2008, but she would have none of it.
What they didn't know is it was initially Deb's idea to leave, and that she had been wanting to leave for decades (even before we were married) previous to 2008.
Cowardice is definitely a consistent NTCC'er trait.
Gregory
Jeff,
I know your begin there has been a great comfort to a great many people. Keep up your ministering to the hurting/damaged.
You have been a good friend to me.
Gregory
NTCC is one giant buzzkill--RW and his evil compatriots just love to watch people squirm. That story about the volleyball game reminds me of an incident which occurred shortly after I arrived to (B)ible (S)chool. The "apostle" had a group of new students up to his house in Webster Grove. I was excited about getting to be in the presence of this "man of God." We were in his living room, and I attempted to engage him in some conversation. I thought North Carolina might be a good place to start, since my family had moved there after I left home, so I said something like "so, you're from North Carolina, sir?" He gave me that about-to-pass-gas sourpuss look, and then he gazed absently at the ceiling and started whistling, completely ignoring me and my question. I bet he got a real thrill out of seeing the confusion on my face. What a dick. I wished I'd realized that right then, because years of spiritual and emotional abuse were about to commence.
Vic said...
What a dick. I wished I'd realized that right then, because years of spiritual and emotional abuse were about to commence.
Chief said...
He did something similar to me one time as well. I was in a serviceman's home that RWD was visiting. There was some kind of conversation going that I decided to comment on. I don't even remember the topic of the conversation. At the time, I was in my 40s and quite secure in my views and I just wanted to express my views on the subject at hand. When I commented, Rdub simply interrupted me right in the middle of my sentence and plainly cut me off and it was apparent what he was doing so I commented no more. It was obvious that he wanted to be the very center of the discussion and he wasn't interested in anyone else sharing any "meaningful" dialogue concerning the conversation that he was clearly controlling.
During that same evening, pastor Hunt was trying to show how spiritual he was by affirming his commitment to abstain from having children together with his wife. I don't remember the particulars but RWD's remarks to Hunt really made Hunt look like a dummy and RWD really backed Hunt up against a wall, (figuratively speaking) and Hunt was NOTICEABLY EXTREMELY embarrassed and Hunt briefly became very defensive. It was an awkward situation and it was obvious that RWD was a psychological bully, plain and simple. I'd really like to see someone go off on that crook. I mean really go off on him. I've grown to have nothing but absolute disdain for Kekel, Davis, Olson and Tanya. These folks are the lowest of the low down, the bottom of the bucket, the scum of the earth and I really feel that way.
That's how he is. He manipulates people into certain positions, and then turns and mocks them when they fall for it. Sicko.
Yep, someone I still have some association with in Graham posted on her fb recently asking if there was fellowship (and this is a member asking about the members fellowship they used to do after Wed. night bible study). The response from a more 'respected member' said "No we're not. They're having class in there but REv. Kinson said they will probably have one before Christmas."
I thought WOW what a way to cover it up - have class in there when we normally have fellowship so people wont ask why there's no fellowship. They'll just accept it. imho - I'm just sayin!
Gregory said:
My wife and I will be in Washington this month, maybe we can get together.
That would be wonderful! You want to send me your email/contact info to xerfreedom@yahoo.com. We'll chat about when you're coming. Look forward to meeting!
I was a former member of the NTTC (El Paso Tx. Servicemans Home) back in 1981. Can anyone tell me what ever happened to Pastor Blumenthal ? He was my Pastor at that time and baptized me in the Rio Grande River. I backslid from God afterwards for the next 31 years, but re-dedicated my life back to Christ. I have thought of him alot through the years,
Hi Anonymous,
I am the former wife of Pastor Blumenthal. Please please feel free to email me.
deborah_shunk@yahoo.com
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