 | ||||||
| One of the best
things you could ever do for you and your family. |
Please note, the message below is coming from the man who has been “assigned” to
Graham for over 28 years; pursuing his "administrative" calling.
Sorry about all the red ink (again, my commentary). But, as is usual, Senior Pastor Kekel's reasons/reasonings engender more questions than answers; cloud rather than clarify; blather rather than succinctly proclaim.
Sorry about all the red ink (again, my commentary). But, as is usual, Senior Pastor Kekel's reasons/reasonings engender more questions than answers; cloud rather than clarify; blather rather than succinctly proclaim.
The only 2 comments this "message" received are:
Gary Lima says: Praise God! Sounds familiar. Thanks sir!
Tom Wright says: Thanks for this good message…. will use it this week-end…. maybe….
These comments are more disappointing than Senior Pastor Kekel's "message." We have all been taught (through observation) to expect this type of thing from Senior Pastor Kekel. But, from the rank and file? From those in the trenches? Senior Pastor Kekel has his hobbies to keep him busy. But Ministers in the field? All we have (and happily so) is our study, application, and proclamation of God's Word. These comments show Senior Pastor Kekel is not the only one with a lack of basic understanding of God's Holy Word, or even the ability to use a Concordance and Dictionary properly.
Again, Senior Pastor Kekel has an excuse (hobbies, lands, preserving the status-quo, preserving what others have built for him; i.e., the cares of this world); the rest of us, not so much.
Gary Lima is an NTCC Bible College graduate and Preacher. Tom Wright is a graduate, Preacher, and Board Member. At least Tom was a Board Member the last time I heard. Unless he got fired again.
DnA: Here and here are links to the original. I'm sorry my comments chopped up the "message" so much. I just found a lot to comment on. Maybe you should read one of the links first, before you read my article.
On to the "message"...
Gary Lima says: Praise God! Sounds familiar. Thanks sir!
Tom Wright says: Thanks for this good message…. will use it this week-end…. maybe….
These comments are more disappointing than Senior Pastor Kekel's "message." We have all been taught (through observation) to expect this type of thing from Senior Pastor Kekel. But, from the rank and file? From those in the trenches? Senior Pastor Kekel has his hobbies to keep him busy. But Ministers in the field? All we have (and happily so) is our study, application, and proclamation of God's Word. These comments show Senior Pastor Kekel is not the only one with a lack of basic understanding of God's Holy Word, or even the ability to use a Concordance and Dictionary properly.
Again, Senior Pastor Kekel has an excuse (hobbies, lands, preserving the status-quo, preserving what others have built for him; i.e., the cares of this world); the rest of us, not so much.
Gary Lima is an NTCC Bible College graduate and Preacher. Tom Wright is a graduate, Preacher, and Board Member. At least Tom was a Board Member the last time I heard. Unless he got fired again.
DnA: Here and here are links to the original. I'm sorry my comments chopped up the "message" so much. I just found a lot to comment on. Maybe you should read one of the links first, before you read my article.
On to the "message"...
 |
|
TIP
# 1: Just walk away.
TIP
# 2: See TIP # 1.
|
Text: I Cor. 16 (13)
BR: I Cor. 16 (13-14) 13 “Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. (Amen!) 14 Let all your things be done with charity.” (Amen! When will NTCC ever start?)
Before we look at what Senior Pastor Kekel preaches about the word quit and quitting,
let’s start—for a change (instead of letting Senior Pastor Kekel speak first)—with
what Strong’s/the KJV Bible says in 6 places (5 in the Old and 1 in the New) about
what “quit” means:
1) to make a man of or make brave
2) to show one's self a man, be brave
So, “quit” in 1 Corinthians 16:13 means “conduct” yourself like a
man, or become one...not “abandon/give up/forsake/relinquish/desert” like a man. Remember this; this very basic point is important throughout his article.
INTRO:
Interesting (sic), the word ‘Quit’ is found in the bible 13 times (Interestingly, the word “Quit” is found in the Bible 6
times.); a very unlucky word indeed. (I am not
sure what he means by “unlucky.” Especially since we don’t trust in luck or
chance as Christians. Is it because of 13? If so, this is very 8th grade. "Unlucky” numbers are the belief of
numerologists, et cetera. Maybe this is another of Senior Pastor Kekel's hobbies.) In the text, the Apostle Paul seemed (He either did or he didn't. It's Bible, after all.) to feel ("feel?" Is Paul a manly-man or not?) that real (Please define.) men (Why not women? God is not sexist like NTCC.
Also, again, “quit” in 1 Corinthians 16:13 means “conduct” yourself like a man,
not “abandon/give up/forsake/relinquish/desert.”) don’t quit easily (Wrong. There are instances when quitting easily is the right thing to do.), and that the Christian man (So, it's okay for Christian women to quit, just not in a "manly" way?) shouldn’t quit
in a ‘girly’ way. (Although, I am not sure exactly what
quitting in a girly way is, I thought the wrested point of this message was quitting. So, there is a "manly" way to quit? So, it's okay to quit, as long as you do it right?) In fact, he’s saying DON’T QUIT! (Which is it? Can we quit or not? [in NTCC speak, quitting means leaving NTCC, which is taught as leaving God] Actually, Paul is more specific elsewhere…he says don’t quit
serving God. But, God is not saying this in 1 Corinthians 16:13. This sweeping
generalization by Senior Pastor Kekel must be intentional, and designed to wrest/mislead; or could he really just be this ignorant? “Quit” in 1 Corinthians 16:13 [and elsewhere] means “conduct” yourself like a man, not
“abandon/give up/forsake/relinquish/desert” like a man. I am not sure why Senior Pastor Kekel
is missing on this basic point. Please note: He teaches at NTCC's Bible College, and is the
Dean. He illustrates the spiritual danger of being a Scripture wrester, and a Cult member.)
I)
Quitting due to Weakness
Paul says (sic) should demonstrate strength, rather than be a quitter. (Again, Paul is talking about conduct, not abandoning/stopping.) To justify such behavior and weakness, the 98 lb. spiritual weakling will declare (...will declare he is standing/fighting for God from "Sandwich Mansion" in Graham...) that he is ‘still serving God’ just not a church. (The Church, as Senior Pastor Kekel uses it, is a building or an organization. The Church, as God uses it, is the people. I know this is all basic stuff, yet Senior Pastor Kekel is a Professor in NTCC’s Bible College, and the Dean. His wife, Tanya, also works there.) If so, there would have been no grudge (NTCC does this. I may forgive, but I never forget—Senior Pastor Davis. Yet, this is the man who can't remember.), rude comment (NTCC does this.), offense (NTCC does this.), disappointment (NTCC causes this.), let-down (NTCC does this.), bad-experience (NTCC causes this.), no sin that could separate him from the church. (Remember, if you leave NTCC you are not leaving God or the Church; as God defines the Church. There should be no guilt.) There is no ‘perfect church,’ (Nice try trying to mainstream. But, NTCC touts itself as the "most perfect" church. Just ask them, and they'll tell ya.) and if there was, it would be ruined by such weaklings starting to attend it. (Yet, the Bible records its character's moments of weakness. From Adam to the Apostles. Meekness and weakness are desirable traits in God's economy. The real spiritual weaklings are those who cannot keep themselves in subjection to policy, justify their disobedience, tell dirty/racist jokes, are bullies [both from the pulpit, and during fellowship] to those who are weaker than they are in the pecking order, and those who work behind the scenes to destroy Christian testimonies.)
I’ve
seen many (How many?) people come and go throughout the years, (This is easy when one is permanently assigned to Graham, impossible for those of us out in the field.) and by many (How many?) different
methods. (Did they leave inside a plane? Did they leave inside a train?...Did they leave inside a boat? Did they leave upon a goat?...Did they ride out on a horse? Will your spouse want a divorce?...Did they leave by car or bus? Since they left they're not of us....Did they leave but answer why? Did their leaving make you cry?...If you leave they'll lie on you. It tis what manly men must do.) Some in a manly (Please define.), straight-up (Please define.) fashion, usually accompanied by an
explanation and a repentant attitude. (If a person gives an explanation, where is the need for a repentant attitude? Also, since they left after providing an explanation they obviously didn't repent.)
I’ve
also seen many cowards (Who gets to define what cowardice is, and how many is "many?" What about the "Pulpit Bully?" Are they not cowards?) who have ‘disappeared’ (How many?) or refused to say ‘why’. (And this is wrong why? NTCC never really explains or answers questions.) They
usually say things like (The cowardly say things like..."Just pray for them" and "They wanted sin more than God" and "There are things you just don't know" and “I knew there was something wrong when this or that happened, or when they
said this or that, et cetera.” and "Et cetera...");
“it’s (sic) just time to move on (sic)” (This seems manly and straight-forward to me.)
“I have a difference of opinion (sic)” (This seems manly and straight-forward to me.)
“I’ve lost confidence in my leaders (sic)” (This seems manly and straight-forward to me.)
“I love everyone, and no one has done anything to me, I’m moving in another direction.” (This seems manly and straight-forward to me.)
“I’m so free now (sic)” (This seems manly and straight-forward to me.)
Question: Has Senior Pastor Kekel ever impressed anyone as being
über-Manly? Even in the spiritual gifts department, his calling is secretarial. Not one manly/über-manly musician comes to mind (other than most/all drummers). The same goes for photographers.
über-Manly? Even in the spiritual gifts department, his calling is secretarial. Not one manly/über-manly musician comes to mind (other than most/all drummers). The same goes for photographers.
After
all, who is going to declare “I want to put my wife on a job” (The person that does. Not everyone lies, or says one thing
but means another. Plus, it was the Cult that put Deb on a job for 8 years in
Korea, not me. Plus, Senior Pastor Kekel's wife works on 2 jobs...Here and here is the proof.) or “I don’t like paying tithe" (The person that does. This
seems manly and straight-forward to me.) or “my family offered me a job
and a free house”? (The person for whom this is true. This seems manly and
straight-forward to me. And, shows a desire to not be worse than an infidel, by caring for your family. Contrary to what NTCC teaches, you can serve God, pursue Ministry, and have children, and take care of your family. Also, will anyone admit to believing Senior Pastor Kekel didn't get a job and a free house after he married Tanya?) Who would be bold enough to say “I hate the
Pastor” (Someone that does. This also seems manly and straight-forward to me.) or “I can’t forgive
the church for not paying my rent”? (The person that does. This seems manly
and straight-forward to me.) Or, “I don’t like being accountable for the
money, I want to spend it the way I want, when I want.” (The person for whom this is true. This seems manly and straight-forward to me.) Not many; because
they already know how hollow such arguments really are. (Unless, this is what they really think. Plus, reasons are not always "arguments"—or excuses.)
So should people give reasons for leaving or not? Above, Senior Pastor Kekel seems miffed people would leave sans any explanation. Now, you can leave if you have an approved reason. Almost as if you have to ask permission to leave. Well, why not. You have to ask permission for most everything else. Except in this case asking permission will gain you your freedom. So, go for it.
For those of you who bothered to read Senior Pastor Kekel's "Shunk" article, you observed I sent manly and straight-forward emails to him (and others)—even explaining things—and him not liking it. Senior Pastor Kekel appears double-minded about what he likes, what is right, and how we specifically need to act around/toward him. Is there a right way to leave or not? Plus, I never left. But, I guess I am manly enough for Senior Pastor Kekel's taste—he wrote, in this article that "Greg’s demeanor was a trifle strange, very stiff, loud and military-like." I know I am quirky/strange (a trifle strange...I like who I am, and the way I am), have good posture (very stiff), I speak clearly plus know how to project my voice when needed (loud), and am proud of my continuing military service (military like). Plus, Deb thinks I'm handsome, funny, and smart (so does my Mom, so I know it's true). Just ask her and she'll tell ya. We have been married for over 18 years—so I must be her type, so the "nervous concern" doesn't matter. One thing though, I am not "military like," I am military. Deb likes manly-men; just like Senior Pastor Kekel does.
So should people give reasons for leaving or not? Above, Senior Pastor Kekel seems miffed people would leave sans any explanation. Now, you can leave if you have an approved reason. Almost as if you have to ask permission to leave. Well, why not. You have to ask permission for most everything else. Except in this case asking permission will gain you your freedom. So, go for it.
For those of you who bothered to read Senior Pastor Kekel's "Shunk" article, you observed I sent manly and straight-forward emails to him (and others)—even explaining things—and him not liking it. Senior Pastor Kekel appears double-minded about what he likes, what is right, and how we specifically need to act around/toward him. Is there a right way to leave or not? Plus, I never left. But, I guess I am manly enough for Senior Pastor Kekel's taste—he wrote, in this article that "Greg’s demeanor was a trifle strange, very stiff, loud and military-like." I know I am quirky/strange (a trifle strange...I like who I am, and the way I am), have good posture (very stiff), I speak clearly plus know how to project my voice when needed (loud), and am proud of my continuing military service (military like). Plus, Deb thinks I'm handsome, funny, and smart (so does my Mom, so I know it's true). Just ask her and she'll tell ya. We have been married for over 18 years—so I must be her type, so the "nervous concern" doesn't matter. One thing though, I am not "military like," I am military. Deb likes manly-men; just like Senior Pastor Kekel does.
You
can have a little bit of respect for them, because at least they talked to
someone. (I did talk [for over 18 months] to Senior Pastor Davis/Kekel, Rev. Olson, and the Graham HQ office; all documented. This got me nowhere. So, should I still have respect for Senior Pastor Davis/Kekel, and
Rev. Olson?) The real cowards are those who slip
out, sink the church, deceive their congregations by implying that the
organization let them down, etc. (Who does this? And how often has this happened? Don't count all the ones that left with Rev. Denis. Rev. Denis was an aberration, and solely the creation of Dr. RW Frankenstein, and his own fleshly emotions and desires. All the accounts I have heard/read have the leaving Pastor waiting for a replacement to arrive, and conducting an orderly changeover.) They feel ‘entitled’ to what they need (Yet, the Bible does promise us we are "entitled" very specific things from the Body-o'-Christ in certain circumstances. The Bible even "entitles" the poor to a handout from the Church. Widows-indeed are "entitled" to support from the Church.); they know not sacrifice or despise the
sacrifice. (Again, remember…all this is coming from the
man who has been administratively “assigned” to Graham for over 28 years. Plus,
this is a sermon outline, meant to be preached. Also, anyone involved in NTCC knows sacrifice, they just don't see it modeled by the leadership. And, it must be disconcerting—for those still in the Cult—to be lectured about sacrifice by Senior Pastor Kekel. As for me, since I am not in the Cult anymore, I can just enjoy watching the/his rote knee-jerk irony/hypocrisy/back-peddling/obfuscation/idiocy. And comment on it occasionally.)
 |
|
“Leaving a Cult
is not the same
thing
as leaving God.”
—Marshall
Applewhite Jr.
(March 1997)
|
Brother, that’s a pretty poor reason to throw away 20 and 30 year relationships with people you said you love. (So, what's a good reason? From my documented personal testimony, the Cult is the one that threw our 17 year relationship away, not me. Deborah sent in a letter of resignation during December 2008; this seems manly and straight-forward to me. NTCC didn't even have the courage to send back a letter accepting/rejecting her resignation. She was a licensed Minister. After 32 years she had just had enough of all the Cult nonsense. How I was being treated was the last straw for her. I never resigned. There was no need, since I had no disagreement with NTCC...I merely asked a few questions.)
II)
Quitting by Absconding
This is a particularly cowardly way to quit (Why? The Bible enjoins us to avoid inevitable secular confrontation. The real cowards are those who blast people from the Pulpit, belittle people during fellowship, and justify their disobedience to policy, and refuse to brook any treatment in kind.); it means to leave hurriedly and secretly. It is a method used typically by those who wish to avoid detection or “arrest for an unlawful deed.” (Webster’s) (Glad leadership final admitted they are Law in the Cult member's life. But, absconding is intelligently used by some to avoid the inevitable unfounded Cult recriminations, guilt tripping, or the cold indifference from Senior Pastor Davis that comes from a heart devoid of the ability to love. Senior Pastor Davis/Kekel is the one who refuses to acknowledge a 20 or 30 year relationship/sacrifice to be a part of their Cult [17 for me, 32 for Deb]; therefore throwing away a 20 and 30 year relationship with people they
In other words, they don’t want anyone to highlight the sheer absurdity (We all know Senior Pastor Kekel doesn't like it either.) of their reasoning (I am still waiting for someone to highlight any "sheer absurdity" I may have engaged in [since I never left], and for someone to do this for any of the articles on this Blog.), it’s easier to seek someone to scratch their itching ears. (My thoughts exactly. This is why regular pronouncements of “We are Winning” and “We love you, Sir” are so needed by the Cult leadership. And one reason why they have Conference so often—It massages the leadership's ego; among many other things.)
II
Timothy 4 (1-5)
1 “I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word (NTCC doesn't do this. This "message" is more proof.); be instant in season, out of season; reprove (NTCC has this down pat.), rebuke (NTCC has this down pat.), exhort (NTCC doesn't do this.) with all longsuffering (NTCC doesn't do this.) and doctrine (NTCC doctrine is usually different from God's doctrine.) 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (NTCC has been at this place for a long time.); but after their own lusts (NTCC has this down pat.) shall they heap to themselves teachers (NTCC does this.), having itching ears (NTCC has this down pat.); 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth (NTCC has this down pat.), and shall be turned unto fables (NTCC has this down pat.). 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.”
It’s
true! (Yes, we all know, this is from the
Bible.) Those who leave the ministry and the church without explanation,
always (Always?...) have something to hide (Then, this is why Senior Pastor
Davis did this?). They won’t answer the phone, they avoid contact. (Again, there is nothing wrong with trying to avoid
confrontation. Plus, there is no requirement that you have to answer your own phone; unless you are in the Military, or your civilian job requires it. And what about those who won’t answer snail mail; as Senior
Pastor Davis does. Or that won’t answer emails, as Senior Pastor Kekel does? Are they not cowardly?)
Afterward, they run right into the arms of some of the most hateful, bitter
enemies of the church they once loved. (But, who decides
if these categorizations are the true ones? Senior Pastor Davis/Kekel only? Why
not Rev. DiFrancesco, he has the same gift as Senior Pastor Kekel...the "gift" of adminitration.
I know I have asked this before, but why is Senior Pastor Kekel a Pastor? His own testamony is he hasn't been called. Again, the Church is the people, not a building or organization.) These
hidden motives (If they are hidden, how does Senior Pastor Kekel/Davis know? Or, is this another "thus saith the Holy Ghost" moment?) are never disclosed when postpartum (I’m
not sure why Senior Pastor Kekel uses this word, since it’s only used in
relation to child birth.) explanations are rendered to others (I agree completely. This is what the Cult does.), it’s always someone else’s
fault. (I agree completely. This is what the Cult does.) Saving face is
imperative. (I agree completely. This is what the Cult did, and now can only try to do. The internet now makes this impossible.)
III)
Quitting without Quitting (This ought to be good. The
Cult has a firm grasp of this type of conduct; they have mastered the secular
art of answering without answering, caring without caring, slandering without
slandering, loving without loving, helping without helping, lying without lying, cheating without cheating, stealing without stealing, praying without praying, believing without believing, and libeling without libeling.)
These are those who can’t let it go. (Or are pursuing the duty of warning their fellow man.) They quit the church (FYI, the Church is the Christians, not an individual organization or building, as Senior Pastor Kekel seems to think. Also, to this day, I never did quit.) but want to retain all their friends. (Yes, we want to retain our friends, what's wrong with this? We also want to retain our family—Becky and John Rodriques—but, Senior Pastor Kekel personally ensured this didn’t happen. And we were still both Licensed/Ordained Minsters at the time, and for the next year after.) They want to have their cake, ‘and eat it too.’ If you eat your cake, there’s nothing to keep. (But, for those in the Cult, since you can’t afford cake, there is nothing to have. I am glad I can now have and eat all the blessings God intended for me.) Brethren, if the quitters didn’t want our fellowship (But, the "quitters" mostly did/do.) when they slipped out, why would they want it now? (Well, because it is the right thing to do, I am surprised Senior Pastor Kekel doesn’t know this. Maintaining friendship is important. Unless NTCC is willing to now admit they are not part of the Body-o’-Christ.)
IV)
Never Quit! (I Agree! Unless it's the right thing to do.)
No matter what comes your way (No matter what? Interesting. So, no matter what, NTCC should never quit fellowshiping with any "Exer" that wants to fellowship); no matter who kicks your cat (Sorry, animal abuse is NTCC’s shtick. If I had a cat, no one would kick it.); in spite of problems, disappointments with people, circumstances, work, family; Be STRONG- eschew the evil, shun the babblings, reject the critics, toughen up! (This is confusing. Is Senior Pastor Kekel telling people to leave our Cult? NTCC is the one who speaks evil/assassinates character, double-talks/doesn't make sense, criticizes, seethes, gnashes, spies on people, and gets their feelings hurt. We are vilified for reporting what everyone knows is happening, and has/is experiencing. Everyone in the Cult is a second witness.)
From my own personal experience/testimony, NTCC is the absconder and
the quitter. They didn’t renew my Ordained Minister’s License for the 2009
preaching season. No valid explanation has been given to date (5 years on 1 January 2013).
They also blocked my attempts to get licensed by another Organization after
they didn’t renew my license (so I went into the Military). They failed to maintain a dialogue/relationship with me; despite my repeated overtures to them. They quit, where I was concerned.
Seriously? Merry X-mas,
Gregory
35 comments:
That was a very good post and I enjoyed the commentary. Do you think you can email me a copy of Kekels words by themselves? I was thinking about comparing them to the communist manifesto and some other Nazzi documents to see how many similarities I could find. He writes a lot like Hitler. He assumes that everyone that hears his voice is stupider than he is. He also assumes that all of his brainwashed subjects will not see through his words and figure out what he is all about. I wish I could buy Kekel for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth. I could retire and live off the interest.
There are a lot of smart people in the ntcc. Cult members are usually pretty intelligent according to statistics. Reading this piece by Kekel there is obvious animosity and a whole lot of looking down his nose at you. If you were to send his letter to a third party psychological analyst, that had no idea what this letter was about, he would most likely diagnose Kekel with NPD - Narcissistic Personality Disorder among other mental conditions. It's amazing that all of the cult members would probably be shouting Amen as they were reading it. It's a hit piece, plain and simple.
Thanks DnA,
I'm sorry about how chopped up it is. I didn't even think how hard it would be to read with all my comments. I just kept adding to it.
I just added links to the original, right before his message starts in my article.
I still can't believe how amazing it still is that he wrests scripture so completely. It's like he has a gift for it.
Hope you had a joyous Cult-free Christmas.
Gregory
Gregory said:
"Hope you had a joyous Cult-free Christmas."
We did have a joyous Cult-free Christmas this year. We also have been enjoying our Cult-free lives.
It's crazy sometimes and life in General can be unpredictable unless you are an ntcc cult member, then it seems like everything is boring and predictable. That is one of the worst things about being in a cult, is that you subject yourself to live by a strict set of rules and regulations. There is very little to look forward to on either side of eternity.
On this side of eternity a cult member sacrifices everything he or she has so that the wealthiest members of the cult can become filthy rich. On this side of eternity a cult member is allowed to make very few decisions and the fruit of their labor is given to those that have no lack of any needs or desires. On this side of eternity a cult member is drained of everything that makes them a responsible human being. They are drained of dignity, individuality, personality, motivation, charity and human decency.
On the other side of eternity, the outcome looks even more bleak for the ntcc cult member. 99% of ntcc cult members leave the cult before they die and a majority of them leave with a horrible taste in their mouth and don't want anything to do with religion. Jesus kept 11 out of 12. The ntcc keeps 1 out of 100. Unfortunately many cult members don't leave until they have wasted large amounts of money, energy and their lives.
Putting all that aside, what does a cult member that stays in the ntcc for life really have to look forward to on the other side of eternity? They have spent their entire lives trying to emulate the most immoral religious Pharisaical leaders on the planet. The character of an ntcc cult member is not representative of anything that we read about that even closely resembles Godliness in the bible. They are taught to isolate themselves and look down upon the very ones that Jesus spent His life reaching out to. I don't see a whole bunch of ntcc lifers lined up at the pearly gates hearing the words, "Well done my good and faithful servant". Maybe there will be a few, but you would have to have Christian character opposite to that which we see in the ntcc leadership.
Cult members by their very nature do not make great Christians because they are greatly hindered by non-biblical rules that define hypocrisy and that war against the true and undefiled scripture.
Thanks for all you do, Gregory and Deborah. We enjoy your blog and think that it's necessary and informative to current and X-cult members alike.
Don and Ange
Good points DnA,
The grinding boredom is not something that is addressed very much. The sameness of everything is agonizing. I will have to give this some more thought, since I hadn't before.
Gregory
Hello Deborah! You know I just finally read this adn boy my blood is boiling again! OMG Kekel is such a liar! So I told you about the email with Tanya I'm going to put it here - it might have to split it in 2 (pretty sure anyway). I'll post my email to her then her response. Now mind you, yes, I was still timid at the time and still going thru the battle, but folks, Kat is proud to say she has been receiving blessings in the healing process. I'm even fine if I see Davis, Kekel, Olson, whatever. I'm not scared at the scowls any more! Ya'll are such liars and manipulators! I have more I can/will say but I am heading out in about 5 minutes (son #2's b-day and the oldest ones is in 2 weeks from today). This email I will post can be both in this blog and would line right up with things said on Jeff's blog too. Ok I tried – this is longer than I remembered. I will have to divide it into 2 or 3 comments.
***Part 1:
On Jul 22, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Kathy Doubikin wrote:
From: Kathy Doubikin
Subject: Re: Fw:
To: "Kathy Doubikin"
Date: Friday, July 22, 2011, 5:03 PM
Hello Sis,
I am sending this to a few different email addresses. I know the hotmail one is old or if you still check it. I'm not sure if I have the yahoo one correct or not so I'd rather be safe than sorry!
I'm sorry I missed your call the other night. Often times after work, I don't always remember to turn my cell phone volume back up.
I wouldn't mind talking with you but the past two weeks and the next one or two weeks, until I have a project at work done, my schedule is uncertain. I'm going to begin this email by sending it back and forth to myself until I have time to finish it then I'll send it to you.
I'm not sure if Pastor Kinson mentioned I spoke with him when he called me one day. I told him I decided to go to another church. I have a lot going on and a lot of reasons why I felt the need. First, I have no ill feelings about NTCC. I NEVER thought I'd ever say I wanted to leave. It was a very tough decision.
As I explained to Pastor Kinson, I have felt like I'm all alone there since the departing of my marriage. I also feel like Dan has become rather smug in the fact that he had his part to do with the separation and has never tried to fix it or make anything right. I will give the fact that twice, after Pastor Davis preached messages regarding Christians getting along, especially couples, Dan did come to me and say ok, let's try, we'd go to dinner and immediately, the only thing he wanted was sex. I'm sorry, but I'm not a prostitute and that is how he made me feel. I told him how it made me feel. I told him the only thing I have ever wanted was a biblical MAN for a husband and that I wanted to be told YES, NO, THIS is the way it is. I needed support, the way the bible says. I told him maybe not every woman would say that but I never had any stability in my life and I wanted it very much so. He promised me and HE asked me to marry him. He failed me and the boys. He promised to love and to be a positive role model. He neglected his responsibility as a husband and as a Christian. Prior to marriage he made all these wonderful promises of how he will do things with the boys. It ended up with nothing but arguing and fighting and belittling, constantly, to the point of physical confrontations between him and the boys. I didn't believe my boys. I believed Dan for a while over them, until there were witnesses.
****Part 2:
I've mentioned these things in the past when I separated from Dan and we spoke with Pastor Kekel. I wanted to speak with Pastor Davis but apparently he never got the word. Nearly 2 years after our separation, Pastor Davis asked me where my husband was. When I said I didn't know, Sister Davis stepped in and said to him, oh you didn't hear, they are divorced. I felt like wow, he never knew. That still didn't matter so much too me, but I was curious as to why.
What really matters is how Dan would be involved with fellowship and I had no one to talk to. It's already limited as to like groups (meaning bible school students, ministers and members) and I understand why. Where did I fit? I never knew. A few times people said Oh you and your husband and me and mine should get together. When I said, um well we are kinda separated right now. I never go that invite any more.
I'd sit there and see Dan having a good time, acting. He'd act like he was ok and hadn't done anything wrong. For one, when we separated, we agreed it was for a time to work things out. He failed to admit he had any wrong much less try to work things out. Two, I look at the bible about the husband providing for the family and about the father not provoking children to wrath and he doesn't see he's done anything. I continually use to ask him PLEASE talk to Pastor Davis, Kekel, someone, please let's get help. There were financial problems. He wouldn't run a budget, he didn't run a check register, he didn't care when utilities where shut off etc. I HAD to deal with the utilities shut off but I couldn't ask about finances. I asked him to get help with this. I couldn't ask him anything if it made him look less than perfect. He'd have a fit! He'd scream and slam doors. It escalated to police being involved a few times.
Now, I'm not blaming everything on him. I did admit my faults and apologized. I asked him for forgiveness. All I got from him was well I probably did a few things wrong too. REALLY!. I prayed for the longest time for things to work out. He still won't admit or try. When we first married, I was so excited. I thought finally, stability, Godliness, a leader of my home! After all, he promised all of this.
For several months I dealt with problems. He'd come home and the house was spotless. I was up early making him breakfast, packing his lunch, getting his clothes ready, wake him up just in time to get dressed, eat and go to work. He'd come home, clean clothes were laid on the bed, he'd shower, he'd have a hot dinner ready, everything. He promised each night he'd read the bible with the family & lead us in the word. That never happened. He never ever read that I ever saw, EXCEPT when I asked him why. I told him you promised. He did for a day or two and that was it. I never ever saw him pray either. The only time I ever did was at church.
About 5-6 months into our marriage, all he did was complain. He no longer liked the way I cooked. He wanted everything the way he use to have it made in HI. He no longer liked the way I picked out his clothes. He let his parents move into our apartment, 2 months after being married. We had a small 3 bedroom apt. 900 sq ft, 3 br, 1 ba! We already had the 5 of us living there! I had to make the 3 boys share the SMALLEST room for his parents. I couldn't' take it anymore. I said something so finally after 3 1/2 months of freeloading and causing more problems, they moved out.
I know I'm saying a lot of things about my relationship and it's not the only thing, but I think it's important to see what it is that has bothered me and there are only a few more things left. I'm sorry for the length of this!
Part 3:
After a bit over a year in our marriage, and things were just spiraling down hill, I was becoming so depressed. I never knew what depression was but I use to tell Dan I feel depressed and don't know why. I got pretty bad. Eventually, having no one who cared, I just hid it away. Later I had medical problems. I also was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. One of the symptoms of Fibromyalgia is depression. Dan researched it and even acknowledged it. He didn't care. With all I had going on, I still maintained the home, classes, church, and everything else we had going on.
Moving forward, I also have severe arthritis in my knees. to the point of no cartilage left at all. He doesn't know that but knew I had severe pain. Most of my life has been a traumatic experience. My father committed suicide before I turned 3. I was sexually abused growing up, along with mentally and verbally abused. I married young, had the boys, then later another relationship, someone sexually abused the oldest. I had my trust in Dan and HE knew all I had been thru. I feel he took advantage of me too.
I actually slid into a deep depression about a year ago. I didn't care if I lived anymore. In fact I don't know what I would've done had I not still had my boys in my life! I felt I had NO ONE to talk too. I got angry with God. I often would ask God WHY would he make such a miserable being as I was (as I felt then). I felt I was an example of a mistake. Honestly I had never felt so terrible and so alone. My boys even where really concerned.
Realizing this is a huge problem, I finally said I need help. I found a Christian counselor who did diagnose me with PTSD and severe depression. I began with a herbal form of serotonin builders, similar to anti-depressants but natural. She explained how serotonin levels lead to the feelings I had. I wanted natural treatment if possible and it was. So I have help now with this and I'm actually doing much better now, in part to this.
I also felt I just couldn't SIT at NTCC anymore. I needed fellowship. I needed to have someone I could talk to, someone who cared and never felt like that sitting at NTCC. I needed to NOT allow my feelings of Dan restrain me any longer from walking with God. Still feeling distant, I had to do something. I didn't come much and no one said anything. Finally I felt like it doesn't matter if they are right I've got nothing worth coming here for anyway. If I'm wrong, what does it matter if I go to church or not. Someone who really cared, and had nothing to gain, kept inviting me to her church. She saw my pain and depression. I gave in and said I'd go. I wasn't feeling to good about going to any church.. I was still struggling. One day, I turned on the radio, which I seldom did anymore. I heard a song (now the ring tone/ring back on my cell phone) and that is the song "Blessings". The part that spoke to me was about how we want to hear His voice. We cry in anger when we don't feel Him near. I had been going thru that. I realized how I had been expecting God to I don't know maybe audibly tell me what to do, how to do it, etc. I realized so much by accepting I was expecting God to speak to me as if He didn't hear me and as if He wasn't trying to speak to me.
In the past 3 months roughly, I have been at peace. It's not because of any church I go to or not. I have found a peace again and maybe better than I ever had with God. I have begun reading and praying again, not because I have too, but because I want too. I have been eager to return home from work to spend time with the Lord in reading, studying thru my Dakes.
Part 4:
In these past few months, I have been going thru a healing process, physically, mentally, and spiritually. I feel better than I have in a long time. Again, not due to being or not being at any church, but because of God. I have lost 41 lbs in the past two months. I no longer battle depression. Yes, I still have hurt but I've let it go and I believe with time and continued healing, it will go away. I am going to proceed (when time and finances permit) with my divorce with Dan. I have held out 4 years. I don't plan to rush to it, but I'd rather be alone with God and not have someone hurt me again.
I don't know what the future holds. Will I ever come back to NTCC? Only if God leads me back. For now, I feel this time in my life, I am attending another church and that is where I should be. In reading the word, I spent time with Luke 9:49-50, "And John answered & said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name and we forbad him because he followeth not with us (50) and Jesus said unto him, forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."
As I end, again, I have no ill feelings with NTCC. Yes, I did have ill feelings, but I have given it to God now and I am moving on. I know when people leave NTCC a lot of times people are concerned as to whether or not they are safe or ok to fellowship with. This was an extremely hard decision, It's been hard to write this email! I love and have loved so many along the way in NTCC. I am sad at the thought that they may never speak to me again. God knows and God will make all well.
Please feel free to let me know if you want to speak further. You can email. Phone is difficult to get me but I will answer when I am able to.
I ask that you please share this with your husband and Pastor Kinson as I see I missed a call from him last night too.
Sincerely,
With God's love,
Kat
TK's response:
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: TANYA KEKEL
To: Kathy Doubikin
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Sorry I missed your call (and that this may be lengthy!)
Hello Sister Kathy,
I was glad to receive your email; I hoped that you weren't "avoiding" me.
I felt very heavy after reading your story of loneliness and despair, I wish that I would have known and would have been able to help. I'm sorry I failed to be there for you; please know that it wasn't by design or callousness. I knew that you were having marital problems but after you separated I didn't realize that things continued to be so awful for you. Please forgive me for Christ's sake.
I'm so glad that you are doing better.
I did share your email with Pastor Kinson and my husband, both of whom want nothing more than to see you blessed, happy and where God wants you to be.
Please be assured that no one thinks that Dan is faultless in the whole situation. After reading your email my husband recounted to me various things he told Dan such as; "You aren't right. "You need to lighten up on the boys" "There was no excuse for his anger, that he was destroying his family" And etc.... along those lines. To which Dan would say that he was going to change.... If you would like to sit down and talk more just call and we will set up a time, with Dan or without him.
As for my dad's ? to you; I can't really speak to that other than to say he's 80 years old and though he's sharper than most, he does forget things much more often than he used to.
You are always welcome to visit and of course to come home,
Love and prayers and God's best to you always,
TMK
Ok I just found it we are heading out for dinner with the family for the birthday boy. I have plenty I can say and will hopefully sometime this weekend. Hugs and blessings! Kat
I haven't read this in a long time so I have no idea what it says but I saw my last paragraph right now - OK - Yep I guess I was having a hard time writing that but I write it now here for everyone to see, including Mr & Mrs Kekel themselves, I may not have had anything against ntcc and may not but it is against the manipulators and the back stabing liars. Ya'll love to say you should get a neck up from the check up . . . . . please look into your own words!
Oh my goodness too funny! Not only do I speak spoonerisms, but now I type them too! Check up from the neck up is what I meant! Ha smh
Ok so I finally just re-read the email to/from TK - and man oh man is it a sack of hog wash! I mean seriously. So first, if they were so concerned about me, MK knew. I told him all this. MK ALSO knew I asked him in person and via email to speak with Davis. He never got the word. Probably b/c either MK knew RWD wouldn't give a flying care or b/c he didn't want him to know - either way that's just ridiculous!
Now do we all see 2 things here - #1, they know all about Dan and yet he's still a licensed minister!!! REALLY!!! YES b/c he pays his hush money folks!
#2 TK said "I did share your email with Pastor Kinson and my husband, both of whom want nothing more than to see you blessed, happy and where God wants you to be." REALLY? But I'm a quitter - now which is it??!!
SMH SMH SMH
Well, it does not surprise me at all that Kekel did not say anything to Davis, I remember in a service in Graham once Kekel said over the pulpit and I quote "Don't come to me with your problems" loud and clear, I would never and I repeat never go to any of the Graham ministers with my problems, THEY DON'T CARE......talking to Kekel about your problems is like talking to a brick wall, the only difference is he will tell someone else about it, but not because he wants to help you.....
"You are always welcome to visit and of course to come home..."
Home? Man, she's clueless; NTCC isn't a suitable home for anyone.
Thanks for sharing your story Kat. We know that it is not always an easy thing to do, and far too many people discourage the truth and find fault with those who tell it. Even within the X-er community there are those who still imprison themselves by holding themselves to ntcc standards and they live in fear of sharing their true accounts of ntcc abuse with others.
Why should you or anyone be obligated to live by ntcc rules and standards when it is those very rules that allowed so many people to suffer contrary to the bible itself? Why should you, I, Jeff, Deb and Greg or anyone, be obligated to hold ourselves to the standards and teachings of Davis, Kekel, Olson or subject ourselves to their abusive environment? It is so condescending to see what Tanya Kekel wrote. While on the surface it sounds much more intelligent than that which her husband writes, Tanya assumes that the ntcc is guiltless and that in order to make things right, you must "come home" and allow them to continue to disrespect you and mistreat you.
Meanwhile Dan and so many other abusive ntcc ministers are allowed to continue holding credentials and "preach the Gospel" to a bunch of unsuspecting suckers, that will go through the exact same thing you went through. The ntcc leaders, and their wives enable this behavior by doing nothing about it. Oh, they might slap someone on the wrist, or say they have addressed the problem, but the fact is that the ntcc is still full of preachers that mistreat and disrespect people and their children.
The ntcc has been harboring abusers for far too long. As long as people remain silent and allow the ntcc leaders to practice their injurious treatment of others without speaking out, I'm afraid the abuse will continue.
These ntcc leaders are unconscionable and they allow people like this to stink up their entire organization. It starts at the top. RWD is a big time abuser and has enabled his son in law to continue on in his traditions. Their wives are just as guilty. They support their husbands decisions to do nothing. Doing nothing is the same as endorsing the abuse. Of coarse there is nothing a wife can do in the ntcc because women are powerless according to ntcc doctrine and they must be kept in their places.
The abuse will never stop in the ntcc as long as current members and ministers sit back and do nothing. Not every minister in the ntcc is abusive by nature or makes a habit of mistreating their members, but they do subject themselves to a system that requires people to be mentally and emotionally mistreated and dishonored. Ministers and members that say nothing and do nothing about this are responsible for allowing their brethren to suffer at the hands of their own unscrupulous leaders.
What makes all of this so corrupt is that it happens intentionally because the leaders only care about money, period.
Anonymous - yes, I can actually recall hearing RWD saying don't bring your problems to me all too often!
DnA - thanks for all the support and getting it. I posted more on Jeff's blog. I believe I never got to RWD b/c they just don't want to hear it. Yes, MK DID tell Dan oh you got to let up on them boys some but that was it. He never corrected him for being abusive, a hypocrit, etc. and you see TK didn't say MK said any of this! He only said to lighten up (basically). And he knew I wanted RWD b/c then I wanted to let him know what all was going on. I don't care now that I didn't get it to him. I know now it doesn't matter . . .. to them anyone. The justice to all this is they will answer to God. Not that I want anyone to have to face God's wrath but you know, I didn't bring it to them!
Thanks for being there all you guys, Vic, DnA, Chief, Shunks, DU - all you even if I didn't mention your name!
Kat wrote...
The justice to all this is they will answer to God.
Chief said...
I'd like to see justice brought to them right here on this earth. I get no consolation otherwise. That's just me.
Yes, I would like to see it too but I'm not sure we will. I mean the courts don't do a thing about lying, cheating, sleeping around, sleezing, etc and churches still have a by pass go and collect your $200 free card. There's no limiting what the churches can do! I mean look at the Catholic church and all they've done. They get away with a lot until someone will stand up for an actual serious crime (i.e. molestation, etc). I can't promise you'll ever see it. You may have to settle for eventually they will get what's coming to them. The bible says, and they used to quote it all the time, each one of them so called preachers will be held accountable. We'll just get to shout and have a happy time if something happens to them on this side of life. jmho
Kat said....
Yes, I would like to see it too but I'm not sure we will.
Chief said...
You are right Kat. Quite likely we won't. That's why RWD picked church for a business. Church is one of the only businesses that I know where people give you money for nothing and you are not accountable (under many circumstances), (certainly in the NTCC) to anyone. RWD created the ultimate scam.
Kat,
I am not surprised by all of this. It's sickening how the leaders who claim to love the souls of people, treat God’s people. When the damage is done they want to say to you, "well you married him"!
Fake concern, which to me is lying. Pretending you care when the sister has been gone from the church over a year! They make you dependent on them and when you need them, they’re no where to be found. When you do go to them, they make you feel as if it's a chore to listen. And…..they wanted a Mega Church! They can’t even keep track of those that are there! When it comes to helping people with problems and answering questions and the damage is done, then they say why didn’t you tell us sooner! But you know Kat … they knew. Your Ex is suppose to send in a report, and no one sees that he’s not involved in church? Aaah com’on they just didn’t want to deal with it cause, it wasn’t important enough. So glad you found real people who care and don’t put a façade! So glad we got to visit while I was there visiting!
Deborah
"Mega Church." What a joke--I remember when RW unveiled that big strategy. But they can't have a mega church without some mega talent, and they're just like the GIs RW criticizes: "If you could buy them for what they're worth and sell them for what they think they're worth, you'd make a fortune." These guys are so overblown with their own hubris that the need garden rakes to scratch their heads (a little more RW lingo for nostalgia's sake). Mega Church my ass--those kind of numbers bring more scrutiny than they would ever be willing to bear, and they know it. I don't think they ever really want a "megachurch;" it was all just hogwash to fire up the dupes and get more of their blood, sweat, and cash. It's hilarious, actually; Mike has this state of the art facility and a battalion of fanatical workers, and they can't even fill that ugly building, much less outgrow it. But then they have the nerve to tell some pioneer schlub that he's going to go out on his own dime, with no help (and plenty of hindrance) from them, and set the world on fire. Wake up, suckers, you're being played. It's been going on for decades, and many of us have revealed the sordid truth on these fora for years. I know how strong the mind control is, but really, try to open your mind to the possibility that things at NTCC aren't what you've been spoonfed.
Kat,
You need to mention about what MC Kekel told your son,during the time when Dan wasn't doing his fatherly duties. MC Kekel's way of spending time.
Deborah
Mega church! ha yep, I remember the big whipty doodles of that too. Yep they have AZ all worked up too how they'd have a Mega church there..
Deborah, I know they know. I pointed all that out to her and she didn't now all of it but Kekel knew a lot of what I shared about me and all about Dan. RWD knew some of my more personal as well. After all, he “approved” my divorce from the sex offender and “Ok’d” me to remarry AND ok’d Dan. My pastor from AZ knew everything too.
But yes, you're right. They don't care. They aren't in the counseling business. RWD would say it all the time. If you need counseling go some where else BUT counseling was one of his classes! I mean it was one of his many so called degrees he bragged of. THEN if you did get counseling you were weak and had something wrong with you!
So yes, MCK - quick rewind, over the course of the years I had been there, I asked about a half dozen people (so called men of God) to kind of mentor my boys. I made it clear I wasn't looking for a father for the kids, anyone to help with responsibility, a husband, etc. I made it clear just if you go shoot hoops, can you take them once in a blue moon, something to show them what it was like to be around a male figure/man of God. After all, didn't Titus 2 tell us women to encourage the women and train them up and men to encourage/teach the young men? But what do I know. I was continually shot down with it not being there problem. Yes, in AZ and in Graham I tried.
So, one day, after I told Kekel of all that we had been through with Dan, reminding him of the story I shared (in the email to TK) he FINALLY decided to try to be a “Nice guy” HA to my oldest (only). He told my son, about his $250,000 car he had and how he didn’t like to bring it to church b/c everyone talks about him having expensive cars, etc. (HELLO – I don’t even need to say anything here do I?!) So he told my son if he wanted to hang out with him some time, he would let him come over and check his car out and wait for it . . . . . . . . He’d even LET him help him wash it. YES ladies and gentleman he was willing to bless my son by LETTING him help wash his $250,000 car. THANK GOD someone was willing to step up to the plate and show him a bit of godliness (and if this isn’t full of sarcasm, I don’t know what is!) True story folks and you heard it hear first. I even asked my son again to make sure I had it right. No he didn’t say I’ll take you out for a ride, we can shoot hoops, have lunch, none of that just let me bless you and make you one of my servants.
(Thanks Deborah for reminding me to share that.)
sorry - the AZ pastor knew all about me - didn't know all about Dan. I do want to make that clear. He had no idea how bad things got with him.
You know I thought about something I said - Kekel said he didn't like bringing his $250,000 car to the church b/c it caused battles for people. The bible says not to be a stumbling block for each other and he knew his expensive stuff is. Goes to show what matters most to him. I'm just saying. Again, what do I know.
Kat wrote...
Kekel said he didn't like bringing his $250,000 car to the church b/c it caused battles for people.
Chief said...
Kekel is so full of it it's unbelievable. It don't cause battles. Such CULT rhetoric is insulting. What it does when Kekel drives his fancy car, is let people know where their money is really going. With all this information available, you got to be a stupid dummy to give Kekel/The NTCC your money. You give your money so it can be spent on fancy guns, fancy cars, fancy watches, $20,000 a year for Grant when he went to high-school, additional financial support for Grant's Catholic college education. You NTCC people who read this stuff and still send your money to Graham have to be the most gullible people on the whole planet. I mean some straight up real deal bona fide suckers. I didn't know all this stuff when I was in the NTCC.
When I found out, I didn't go through a "battle". I woke up and realized that the NTCC is no more than a family business where certain elite family members and close confidants get rich. It was obvious with all Kekel's flip flops that in the NTCC, it had nothing to do with their man made standards of quote "holiness". It was about money.
Hey, if any of you suckers want to put my son through a $20,000 a year GRADE SCHOOL, and give me enough money to buy fancy cars I sure would appreciate it. Gawd will bless you for sure. Trust me, I'm a "Man of Gawd" also. LOL. Oh, Gawd wants you to bless the "Man of Gawd" with a few more guns to add to my already large gun collection. Gawd told me that he would bless you. For extra blessings, throw in a Rolex while you are at it.
Gawd bless you Brother and praise the Lawd. God is good. Just give me your money and he'll open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing. It's better to give than to receive. All Christians pay tithe and give in the offering. Just give as unto the Lawd and don't worry about where the money goes and Gawd will surely bless. Just ask all the broke NTCC pastors who live in dumps and drive sleds. They are trusting the Lawd, they'll tell you.
No, no, no. Gawd doesn't care if you are a dummy with your money. Just keep holding on for another 10 years and he will surely bless. Trust me, I'm a "Man of Gawd". If you don't believe me just ask me and I'll tell you. ROFLOL. Dummies.
Chief said...
Just give as unto the Lawd and don't worry about where the money goes.
Chief responded to himself saying...
And that is EXACTLY where they get you. I want some NTCCer to show me in the Bible where it says that you are obligated to give to a (NEW TESTAMENT) church during the dispensation of grace and not have any concern about where the money goes??? Where in the Bible are we directed to be flat out blind and stupid concerning where our money goes? This is where the NTCC leadership and many other churches get you.
In the New Testament, every example that I can find of monetary collections being taken or money being distributed and given was ALWAYS for the relief of the poor. In the Bible days, based on what we read in the Bible, people knew where there money was going. It was never suggested in the New Testament or implied that one should blindly give money to a "CHURCH ORGANIZATION" with no knowledge care or concern of where the money goes or how it is spent. This is exactly where modern day church get you. They brainwash you into believing that it is none of your business how money is spent that they expect you to blindly give to their church "as unto the Lord". And that is where they get you good and brainwashed.
So when Kekel says he doesn't drive the fancy car to church to keep people out of the "battle" I call that keeping people in the blind about how their hard earned money is really spent. And that is exactly the area in which I was a real deal blind sucker / dummy while I was with the NTCC. My family often had to budget while the money that I gave to the NTCC was spent liberally and frivolously by the Kekels.
You see, for R.W. Davis' scheme to work, he congregates must believe that it's a sin to have any concern whatsoever for the way money is spent which is given to the NTCC. Hence, "just give as unto the Lord, don't worry about where the money goes and Gawd will surely bless you". That's one of the oldest tricks in the book, and the Catholics and Mormons have been using that same basic trick for centuries. And that my friend is why the Catholic and Mormon Churches have more wealth and assets than any church on earth.
Quote#1: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or better known as the Mormon Church is the richest. Hands down it has the most liquidity and cash on hand to spend at any time. The Catholic Church has a lot of assets but they don't have the residual income of the Mormon's tithing and they are losing the money war by the seconds.
Quote#2: The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars.
And The Chief said, IMAGINE THAT. You NTCCers are getting played by the same tricks. And that's why not one other person in the NTCC has a house that's as grand as RWD's. He is like the Pope and he sees himself as such and he has control of all the money to spend how he wishes. The Mormons may have more liquid cash but the Catholics have more stuff. RWD ain't no dummy but his congregates are with few exceptions and that is why Denis and Barnes left. They weren't going to let Davis control "THEIR" money for the rest of their lives and whether or not they are crooks, (which I think they both are) they are no dummies. Now both Denis and Barnes are both rich based on the sources that I have. And that's why Davis started his OWN organization/corporation so that he could be rich also. If you don't think so, you are a blind, stupid, ignorant dummy.
If you stay in the NTCC continuing to give them your money, you are a dummy and it's just that simple. The Bible says and I quote: ""he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want".
End of story.
Kat said:
"Kekel said he didn't like bringing his $250,000 car to the church b/c it caused battles for people."
DnA said:
You think? I guess it would cause a battle for me also, if I seen Kekel roll up to church in a car what cost a quarter of a million dollars. What kind of car was it Kat? The ntcc is reaching new levels of hypocrisy every day.
I would not only be in a battle, but I would feel like a complete moron and dufis if I seen that my tithe dollars helped purchase a quarter million dollar car. Boy, they are really doing some serious ministering to the lost in the ntcc.
Their new mentoring program is out of this world. Kekel might as well have youth workshops so all of the ntcc kids can learn how to serve in the ministry and to help maintain the expensive Vehicles that belong to the man of Gawd. What a privilege to wash Kekel's car. Talk about doing something to scar a child for life. What a dirt bag. Kekel is an absolute menace to society. We were so stupid to subject ourselves to these extravagant users.
I could be wrong but I don't think Kekel has a "$250,000" car. He has a classic Mercedes (if my recollection is correct) that is not worth near that. I wouldn't think a BMW would be worth that either. Once again and for the record, I could be wrong. It is however a fancy car and as the NTCC leadership has always termed "A Self Car". Kekel did make mention of classic car on one occasion and despite the car appearing to be worth a lot more he said he only paid "AROUND" 15K. I don't remember the figure he quoted but I do remember the ball park.
Having said that, I have better ways to donate my money than for it to be spent on a classic Mercedes that serves no purpose other than to be kept as a collectable and driven occasionally just to show off. So in my book, price is not the issue here. It's just another example of how the NTCC leadership blows the money we give them on a bunch of senseless stuff. Once again and knowing all this, I wouldn't give a plug nickle in tithes or offerings to the NTCC because if I did I'd be a dummy just like the current congregates who stay in the NTCC.
I would not be the least bit surprised if Kat got this one right. Kekel and Tanya have been seen driving around in Beemers, Mercedes and they don't seem to have a problem flaunting these cars in front of ntcc members from what has been shared. If Kekel does have a car that cost's a quarter million, I can imagine that the brain washed cult members would be put in a battle over that.
There are not too many cars that you can buy that have a price tag that big, but I wouldn't discount this story yet. It is well within the means of Kekel and Davis to own such a car, and I have often thought that the few crumbs of information that we get represents only a fraction of the hypocrisy that actually exists within the leadership of the ntcc.
I also realize that sometimes information can get unknowingly exaggerated when it goes from person to person, and perhaps it was a mistake. I just wouldn't be too quick to discount this figure or to think that anything is beyond these multimillionaire tycoons. They are filthy rich and definitely fall into the "eye of the needle" category that Jesus spoke of in Mat 19 and Mark 10.
No mistake here - straight from Kekel to my son - I just asked him what kind of car and he can give me exacts - it's a McLaren SLR. I had no idea what those cars cost so I did a Google search & $250,000 is middle of the line for the cost. So it's give or take on his price tag. I don't know how long he's had this car but (*I THINK* he had only had it for maybe a year prior to us leaving - that I didn't verify).
Now when we were still there, I did hear MCK & RWD from behind the pulpit plenty of times make comments of them belittling everyone that had things to say about what they drive and where they live. They obviously had a guilty conscience of it and were trying to make sure they brainwashed everyone and bashed them enough so they would stop questioning.
Yeah – the attempt at mentoring, they never took me up on, nor have I ever seen them for anyone, but the attempt was let me take this poor boy and show him how fortunate he can be to be my servant. YEA RIGHT. The only fortunate thing my son got was when I finally woke up and left. Yes, my boys, especially him, have an extremely difficult time coping with anything related to God, God talk, Church, Christians etc. because of them.
I do know MCK also had other less expensive (but more expensive than what any member/minister/BS student could ever afford to even dream of). But this McLaren was no doubt. I'll ask my son if he ever saw it *I THINK* he did see it at the church lot one time *I THINK*. Still whether he saw it or not, MCK tooted his own horn. My son didn't ask. He didn't even care. He didn't even know. MCK was bragging and offering to make my son his servant. He was willing to ALLOW him to help him wash his prize possesion. WOW and as MCK would say; "Bless his heart"!
Casey Hayes said Mike used to bring his son to his tony academy every morning in this car. He outed him online for driving a "Mercedes sports car," and Mike came on and disputed that it was a sports car and claimed it was just some old thing he bought used.
I remember RW used to blather on about not being ashamed of the "blessings of God," and how that when he got a new Cadillac years ago he made a point to park it right in front of the church because he wasn't going to hide from "jealous" people. But I guess a quarter-million dollar Mercedes is in an altogether different category, and Mike must perceive that the "little people" won't be able to comprehend his lavish lifestyle without getting in a "battle." And he has a point...anyone struggling in the NTCC's plantation system should get in a battle when they learn their "leaders" have systematically shorn them for years in a relentless pursuit of more mammon. Wonder if he has a Lear jet stashed on a tropical island someplace.
Vic, we are a dying breed. It seems that people only want part the gentler kinder on-line interaction. Few people want to call out those NTCC crooks for what they truly are. So be it. We fought a good fight Bro. Like I've been saying. Sure we were all suckers to one degree or another but some of these folks don't ever learn and I'm about tired of trying to warn them. If they want to give Kekel their money, then good for Kekel. If they are in any church within the NTCC, then some of that money is going to Kekel. It has however been reported to me that some ministers don't even send money to Graham any longer. Good for them. The NTCC leadership has gotten gentler in that regard as they are not revoking some of these none tithe paying minsters licenses anymore. I know why. They won't be able to proudly proclaim that they have a church in yet another city if they just keep snatching ministers from their positions. It's all a big show and in the end, the Kekel get rich.
When RWD dies, Mike and Tanya will be Mega Millionaires if they aren't already. Multi Millionaires. And Grant the Catholic College student? When Mike and Tanya die? Millions and millions and millions. So that is where all the NTCC's members money will wind up. In the pocket of a Catholic college student. All for what. Everyone without exception in the NTCC is just wasting their time and money and life all for what? Thank God in heaven that I'm out of that mess. There is one thing good I can take out of the whole experience. I won't be getting involved with anymore cults and I won't be answering to anymore control monger freak cult leaders.
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