Feb 1, 2010
The following anonymous comment was submitted back in August and held for later posting. You may have noticed that the anonymous comment feature of this blog has been shut down; my reason for doing so, is like a song I heard that said "I'm so much cooler online." It easy for people to be cruel when they can hide, so now you'll have to step into the light to post here.
Anon Post 8/3/09
Sir, You seem to be answering questions. Questions that have been unclear for many years. For example,why is a bowling alley,rollerskating rink,professional baseball game's off limits.
You sit in a Chili's or AppleBee's. More drinking goes on there then at a bowling alley. rock and roll is being played at Malls,Fairs. And baseball stadiums have family sections. with no drinking or smoking allowed. So if these place's are to be avoid. As to avoid the appearance of evil. Even rollerskating rinks have Christian music night. This is shared as a policy at Bible school. Could you cover this as a topic for your blog?
Thanks so much!
Dear Thanks so Much, (TSM)
I apologize for the delay, but I wanted to hold your comment until now because it raises some important topics that deserve more attention than I had time to give, and that I am eager to address.
I think you meant to say answers have been unclear, not questions. You asked the questions; most people understand their own questions. Past answers and explanations concerning these issues however, haven’t been unclear to everyone. You may not agree with my answers, but I hope they will at least be clear.
Your question is, “why are these places off limits?”
Stay tuned, this will be fun,
M.C. Kekel
Anon Post 8/3/09
Sir, You seem to be answering questions. Questions that have been unclear for many years. For example,why is a bowling alley,rollerskating rink,professional baseball game's off limits.
You sit in a Chili's or AppleBee's. More drinking goes on there then at a bowling alley. rock and roll is being played at Malls,Fairs. And baseball stadiums have family sections. with no drinking or smoking allowed. So if these place's are to be avoid. As to avoid the appearance of evil. Even rollerskating rinks have Christian music night. This is shared as a policy at Bible school. Could you cover this as a topic for your blog?
Thanks so much!
Dear Thanks so Much, (TSM)
I apologize for the delay, but I wanted to hold your comment until now because it raises some important topics that deserve more attention than I had time to give, and that I am eager to address.
I think you meant to say answers have been unclear, not questions. You asked the questions; most people understand their own questions. Past answers and explanations concerning these issues however, haven’t been unclear to everyone. You may not agree with my answers, but I hope they will at least be clear.
Your question is, “why are these places off limits?”
Stay tuned, this will be fun,
M.C. Kekel
Posted by mck at 1:04 PM 0 comments
Ck1-
|
Feb 3, 2010
Your question is, “why are these places off limits?” So let's ask a few questions in order to follow a process of elimination.
Is it because the activities are wrong?
They are excluded from biblical mention and therefore can not be intrinsically wrong. While it’s not sinful to roll a ball, glide along on skates or see a game in play, it would be wrong to...
* Enter places of ill repute to engage in these or any other activities
* Covet them to the extent of idolatry
Col. 3 (5) “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry”
Stay tuned for part 3!
M. C. Kekel
Is it because the activities are wrong?
They are excluded from biblical mention and therefore can not be intrinsically wrong. While it’s not sinful to roll a ball, glide along on skates or see a game in play, it would be wrong to...
* Enter places of ill repute to engage in these or any other activities
* Covet them to the extent of idolatry
Col. 3 (5) “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry”
Stay tuned for part 3!
M. C. Kekel
Posted by mck at 6:59 PM 1 comments
Ck1-
|
Feb 4, 2010
“Why are these places off limits?”
Is it because of the appearance of evil?
II Thess. 5 (22) “Abstain from all appearance of evil.”
Eidos (Greek) Sight, form, figure or shape of evil, or evil as it appears.
Many Christians wrest this scripture to imply that, if you do anything that may cause someone to think bad about you, you have sinned. Well, you can’t stop people’s imagination, no matter how much you isolate yourself. This scripture is about avoiding evil when it appears in the way, not avoiding doing things that could cause people to imagine evil.
One example is the teaching of Paul in I Cor. 5 (9-13)
9 " I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
Again, I Cor. 6 (9-11) A Summary
9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
So if you want to avoid every fornicator, he said you would have to leave the planet, which would be foolish, and that was his whole point, that he wasn't talking about EVERYONE; He was misquoted, as preachers often are. He specified in vs. 11, that “if any man that is called a brother” does these things, not those WITHOUT.
A restaurant may have a bar, but you’re not going to be keeping company with the patrons over there, are you? Are you ordering a beer to the table? You would have to leave the earth to get away from appearances of sin, but it’s up to you to “abstain” (I Thess. 5:22) Many Christians would gladly stay clear of such things, but what if a person who calls himself a brother, fits the description in the summary found in I Cor. 6? Let’s pick one or two of the items there, maybe railers and revilers. Will that Christian also stay clear of this type of person?
revile |riˈvīl| verb (I Cor. 6:10)
“criticize in an abusive or angrily insulting manner.”
rail - verb - rail against/at/about (I Cor. 5:11)
“complain or protest strongly and persistently about"
railer noun
ORIGIN late Middle English : from French railler, from Provençal ralhar ‘to jest,’ based on an alteration of Latin rugire ‘to bellow.’
So the bible tells us to avoid people who bellow, and jest, and revile and rail upon others in an angry, insulting manner persistently, even if it is in protest. Here's the one occurrence of this word "jesting" in the scripture;
Eph. 5:1 "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." In I Cor., Paul seemed more concerned about the influence of other "Christians" in the church, than he did about those who were "without" (in the world.)
It is clear; those who do this will not inherit the kingdom any more than an effeminate man or a fornicator will. We have some in NTCC who regularly keep company with railers and revilers on their blogs, facebooks, forums and websites, places where evil and railing appears continually. A casino or a brothel might be more edifying than that. So then, what specifically is, a bad environment? There is an alcohol aisle in Safeway grocery store, shall I stop buying groceries? Will wine jump out and fly down my throat? Not without my consent. You can't even become possessed of the devil without your consent, and who would do that? Yet evil speaking is readily ingested by the hungry Christian, to his destruction.
As far as Applebees, it depends on when you go. On Friday night it is totally different than Tuesday afternoon. There are many situations where you might feel uncomfortable and sense a need to quickly depart. Ultimately, you are the judge, but if your judgment is out of touch with mainstream understanding, what then? As Paul said in vs. 12, if you can’t judge these things within the church, what then? If sinners are intuitive enough to pass laws against gambling, smoking, etc., why can’t Christians see the potential evil in them and properly label them as vices, rather than touting them as virtues?
More to come, God Bless You, M. C. Kekel
Is it because of the appearance of evil?
II Thess. 5 (22) “Abstain from all appearance of evil.”
Eidos (Greek) Sight, form, figure or shape of evil, or evil as it appears.
Many Christians wrest this scripture to imply that, if you do anything that may cause someone to think bad about you, you have sinned. Well, you can’t stop people’s imagination, no matter how much you isolate yourself. This scripture is about avoiding evil when it appears in the way, not avoiding doing things that could cause people to imagine evil.
One example is the teaching of Paul in I Cor. 5 (9-13)
9 " I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
Again, I Cor. 6 (9-11) A Summary
9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
So if you want to avoid every fornicator, he said you would have to leave the planet, which would be foolish, and that was his whole point, that he wasn't talking about EVERYONE; He was misquoted, as preachers often are. He specified in vs. 11, that “if any man that is called a brother” does these things, not those WITHOUT.
A restaurant may have a bar, but you’re not going to be keeping company with the patrons over there, are you? Are you ordering a beer to the table? You would have to leave the earth to get away from appearances of sin, but it’s up to you to “abstain” (I Thess. 5:22) Many Christians would gladly stay clear of such things, but what if a person who calls himself a brother, fits the description in the summary found in I Cor. 6? Let’s pick one or two of the items there, maybe railers and revilers. Will that Christian also stay clear of this type of person?
revile |riˈvīl| verb (I Cor. 6:10)
“criticize in an abusive or angrily insulting manner.”
rail - verb - rail against/at/about (I Cor. 5:11)
“complain or protest strongly and persistently about"
railer noun
ORIGIN late Middle English : from French railler, from Provençal ralhar ‘to jest,’ based on an alteration of Latin rugire ‘to bellow.’
So the bible tells us to avoid people who bellow, and jest, and revile and rail upon others in an angry, insulting manner persistently, even if it is in protest. Here's the one occurrence of this word "jesting" in the scripture;
Eph. 5:1 "Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." In I Cor., Paul seemed more concerned about the influence of other "Christians" in the church, than he did about those who were "without" (in the world.)
It is clear; those who do this will not inherit the kingdom any more than an effeminate man or a fornicator will. We have some in NTCC who regularly keep company with railers and revilers on their blogs, facebooks, forums and websites, places where evil and railing appears continually. A casino or a brothel might be more edifying than that. So then, what specifically is, a bad environment? There is an alcohol aisle in Safeway grocery store, shall I stop buying groceries? Will wine jump out and fly down my throat? Not without my consent. You can't even become possessed of the devil without your consent, and who would do that? Yet evil speaking is readily ingested by the hungry Christian, to his destruction.
As far as Applebees, it depends on when you go. On Friday night it is totally different than Tuesday afternoon. There are many situations where you might feel uncomfortable and sense a need to quickly depart. Ultimately, you are the judge, but if your judgment is out of touch with mainstream understanding, what then? As Paul said in vs. 12, if you can’t judge these things within the church, what then? If sinners are intuitive enough to pass laws against gambling, smoking, etc., why can’t Christians see the potential evil in them and properly label them as vices, rather than touting them as virtues?
More to come, God Bless You, M. C. Kekel
Posted by mck at 12:59 PM 2 comments
Ck1-
|
Feb 5, 2010
Hot Topics (Final)
In conclusion,
*No policy can dictate what you do, or make you live right
*Man’s free moral agency doesn’t negate necessary law and order
*No leader’s wisdom can help you avoid any snare, if you despise the leader
*All Christians have to make judgment calls (choices) concerning their activities
*The name given to a location doesn't necessarily represent its character
For example, when some people hear the words “bluegrass festival” they think “rednecks sitting on the lawn chewing grass and drinking beer, cussin’-and-a-belching, listening to ungodly music twanging devilish songs through their noses.” The Sheraton hotel for example, hosts an annual event called Wintergrass; daytime sessions are held in numerous 40 X 50 rooms with small platforms, and guys teaching one hour instrument lessons during the day. Alcohol free, nudity and profanity free, they are merely acoustic music lessons (how to hold a pick, recommendations of instrument name brands, so forth,) without the ungodly, writhing music found in pop-gospel, some Brooklyn Tab, etc. If the atmosphere changes for the worse, then its time to go! I went to one, learned some great tips and late in the day, when the mood began to change, we left. SO, if anything, we did the RIGHT thing. “I was there when it happened, and I think I oughta‘ know.” I once wandered from the park in Graham to another area where they were holding a dog show. When I saw the Tomboys kissing their dogs, I said “Lord, what’s a preacher doing here?” I promptly departed. There was no written law saying “thou shalt not go to dog shows.” It was an on-the-spot decision based upon the conflict between the Holy Ghost in me, and the spirit of bestiality. This is why one of the gifts of the Spirit is discernment (I Cor. 12)
Some places that were once “places of ill repute” are no longer disreputable because times change. Skating rinks aren’t what they were years ago, and neither are Pro Sporting events, therefore policies concerning them have also changed. Some places that were never before discouraged, have become questionable, but there is no way to predict some of these things, you just have to "go with your gut," as they say, and the Holy Spirit amplifies that natural sensitivity in the discernment of evil.
No adopted policies of NTCC, or any group for that matter, could ever cover all the bases. But in regard to policies that are good and that encourage the prescribed separation ("come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord, II Cor. 6:17) I have never understood why Christians in “free” churches resent someone going the extra mile for God. Why does it bother cowgirls so much when a feminine woman walks into a room? Why do they sardonically grin and declare, “I’m not pretentious like miss-priss over there!” So if someone doesn’t think something is right, something you happen to love, what makes you lash out at them if they have chosen the better part? I have never understood that; I do understand really, more than people are willing to admit.
Ultimately, we have to make choices for God, for the ministry, for our families; and give account to God. This is why God told both Israel and Christians to “walk circumspectly” (Exod. 23:13 and Eph. 5:15) Look around and keep watch! If you want to be a Lion for God, watch out for those encircling hyenas. So, any group, church, organization, army or scout troop, should have the God-given right to say what they, as a group, will or will not do, and anyone that signs up thereby agrees to uphold the integrity of the group. NTCC isn’t perfect because no church is, no people are, but it is an incredible oasis in a desert land. We have the right to say what we choose to abide by, in the interest of pleasing the Lord. Those who don't want that, have always known the location of the door, no hard feelings. So, in the midst of new battles, fresh attacks of satan, there’s such a blessing, because it lets you know that we’re on the right track and still a threat to the kingdom of darkness. That’s why the scripture of the month (which I have delayed in posting) will be from Philippians, but first, here’s a companion passage...
II Thess. 1 (4-10)
3 “We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
Phil. 1 (27-30)
27 “Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; (Photo above) 28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.”
Brothers and sisters in Christ, don’t be afraid of those who hate us without a cause; they think they are destroying us and doing God a favor in trying to bring us into perdition. But to us who have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus, it is an evident token of salvation, your salvation, from God. "Is there not a cause?" (I Sam. 17) Yes, and it's a great one!
Yours in Christ always,
M. C. Kekel
*Anon. Posting has been reopened
Posted by mck at 6:45 PM 0 comments
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