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easy to understand easy to apply |
INTRODUCTION: "Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest."
Deuteronomy 14:22-29 is the longest contiguous text in scripture concerning the tithe, so is its' formal definition for either dispensation. This's a far cry from the miserly policy it's become, as practiced/enforced by the Body of Christ. The giving of tithe in the Old Testament was in the form of a tithe feast, or party, and was also the only inheritance of the tribe of Levi, who hosted & got the left overs.
Tithe may mean 10%, but a tenth of what? The Old Testament tells us, clearly & succinctly in Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (and in other Old Testament verses). The word ‘tithe’ is only a measurement/portion…‘of what’ is decided by God in his OT word. To illustrate, if I say I want a scoop, a reasonable question is “A scoop of what (or what flavor)?” So scoop (or tithe) is the measurement, and vanilla ice cream (or agricultural product) is the “of what?”
Leviticus 27:30 “And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.”
Seems God didn't get our Cult's memo: "All Christians pay cash tithe of the seed of the land, or of the cash fruit of the cash tree & give cash in offerings!" Like the evolving barn-wall commandments of Animal Farm. The lust of the pigs dictated the writing on the wall. Just like our cult & just like those in the OT who're also found wanting.
“Will a man rob God?”...sure (and often, along with robbing God's people), but after reading this post one may very well begin to ask, ”Why is the church robbing man?" Like the body eating itself. But the only folks figuratively starving are the Ministers & members without Mike's administrative calling. The go-getters, among which Mike isn't. Why does NTCC combine dispensations? Why is NTCC's behavior so poor regardless of what dispensation you insert them into? This's because in addition to a universal morality there is a universal evil consistent throughout all dispensations thus far. Folks have to pick a path & NTCC is locked into theirs, panting over the cloven tracks of their masters.
Malachi 3:8-10 “Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings. For you have robbed Me. Even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food [i.e. food] in My house, and try Me now in this, says the Lord of hosts, If I will not open for you such a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.’”
How many times have you heard the above passage used to guilt people into giving more money for a parking lot, church sign, missionary fund, new piano, song books, meet budget shortfalls, et cetera (never a tithe-barn though, curious this)? The only focus of tithing throughout the Old Testament was food (i.e food). Food for the Levite, food for the stranger, food for the widow, food for the orphan, food for offerings; yet God doesn’t change the definition in Malachi.
Malachi would have been a great place for God to ‘change’ anything, since this is the last book in the OT. Though not by date written. That honor goes to Daniel, unless your an Apocrypha fan. But, the subject is still “food in My house.” You may want to spiritualize food (i.e. food), or otherwise synergize the meaning to comply with your secular business model in the name of God’s kingdom, but the context of ‘food’ in the instance of Malachi means…well, food (i.e. food; never cash). Malachi is a book of correction, take the correction, not the cash.
2 Corinthians 2:17 “Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.”
Yet, NTCC is a for-profit non-profit not-charitable Corporation. We're going to start this article by granting the mandatory tithe camp a few of their points to move things along, and in the interest of giving them their self-imposed and demanded handicap of Old Testament proofs, as follows:
We will grant them their strongest (only) point (though not in the Bible, just Dake) of, “Since tithe has never been done away with in the New Testament, it's still in effect” & "No replacement program". Though they ignore the instructions & example to house church written into the NT & the tenets of dispensationalism. Dispensations never overlap. Maybe why they have unique names. Like Abram or Abraham. So where does this leave the other side, how can they (the don't-tithe'rs) get out of this hole? It turns out, and not surprisingly, quite easily. Stay teachable - JHO.
Using our Cult's own proofs to correct them, we've been allowing tithing is still in effect because there are no specific prohibitions against it in the New Testament (false, but we're granting). And since there're no New Testament guidelines on how tithe is to be executed by Christians (true), we must refer to the Old Testament only, to find how this's to be accomplished (also true, the OT is reference).
So what guideline does the Old Testament offer regarding the place paid (and to whom), frequency, and form of tithe? NTCC says only to their Church, every paycheck, before taxes & expenses & in cash only, with no portion for charity. Let’s see how this matches up with God’s word? As usual the Bible says much different. Well, this's what the rest of this article's about. With bonus content into the doctrinal cul-de-sac which's Abram's tithe.
For those who've given the issue of mandatory tithe for New Testament believers’ cursory consideration, and have read some of the information available from both sides of this unnecessarily divisive issue, you will understand why I want to mainly concentrate in just two areas:
~ Abram’s Tithe.
~ Moses' Tithe.
The rest of you may ask, why just these two ‘proofs?’ Well, other than this's about all there is in the Old Testament, it’s because mandatory tithe enforcers use the above two policies, as the main/strongest/only proofs to bolster their case for strong arming the Body of Christ into mandatory tithe. Along with the already mentioned no substitute program.
ABRAM’S (not Abraham) TITHE
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THE CHRISTIAN... really?
Here are the facts: According to only what's contained in the Bible, Abram tithed from the spoils of war, to a king/priest, and only in this one instance. Then, the other 90% went back to Sodom.
But, the New Testament tells of doing the works of Abraham (John 8:39; Matthew 5:20), not Abram (it’s recorded Abraham tithed only when he was Abram & only one time). Or doesn’t this matter either? & may be why God changes names, to avoid confusion, to draw the line for before & after. Like BC & AD. Crisp edges. Christ defined. So no synergy can be applied. A curb, a hedge, a line against error. Yet mankind still tries & succeeds against God every time.
A person either narrowly interprets the Word of God based only on what's written & contextually, or they don’t. If they don’t narrowly interpret in every case, then they're playing fast and loose with the Word of God. Forcing the Bible to say something through theological molestation; either intentionally (Davis) or in ignorance (Kekel). Tithe's the only topic where people—who otherwise narrowly/literally interpret the Bible—allow themselves broad latitude in the interpretation of God’s Word. The other most common ones ignored are any verses dealing with gluttony, fornication & covetousness. In any order, but always the top 3 approved sin preferences. Covetousness (tithe), gluttony, fornication. There are others, but why isn't 3 enough? In the real world, 3-strikes is out.
But, let’s ignore some facts and grant:
A Christian should tithe because Abram tithed in accordance with the heathen custom of the time (not true, but we're allowing). Also, because this singular action pre-dates the written law (true, but twisting scripture), so is therefore applicable to us today (not true, but we're allowing). But, the heathen custom of tithing was practiced by heathen nations worldwide. We don't need the Bible to tell us this, historic records exist.
So the Abramic pattern for tithe is: From any spoils of war, and only to a king/priest, and the other 90% goes back to the country it was stolen from, or your employer if you prefer. This therefore excludes tithing to any church, and goes against the form, and reason (ancient pre-Law custom) for Abram’s tithe, as contained in the Old Testament Law (mandatory tithers also cite this). Thus, we arrive at another NTCC anomaly: Abram’s pattern contradicts the written Law, and current Christian justifications for mandatory tithe (though it was an historical heathen custom in most societies at the time). Interestingly, ancient heathen ‘tithe’ wasn’t always 10%. Actually, it was rarely (never) as little as 10% (except in Abrams case). Also note again, Abram tithed after expenses.
I know many say this account is proof Abram (again, not Abraham) tithed before and after this series of events, but, since the Bible doesn’t say (only that Abram tithed this one time & under singular circumstances), no conclusion should be drawn. But ultimately, why's it matter if Abram tithed before the Law? What Abram did legislates nothing for the Christian (we do the works of Abraham, not Abram). Just as it legislated nothing for the Jew. The Jews tithed under the Law because this's what the Law said to do, not because Abram did it as one of his heathen customs 400 years prior. Jews acknowledge dispensations also, just not the grace one. The Bible tells us God’s Word will not pass 'till all is fulfilled, not Abram’s works will not pass. We don’t even need the Bible’s account of Abram to know tithe existed before/without the law. Secular history tells this also. About Abram also.
So why the narrow application? Why do I say, “So the Abramic pattern for tithe is; from any spoils of war, and only to a king/priest, and the other 90% goes back to the country it was stolen from?” Or, stated differently, “Give 10% to the church, and give the other 90% back to your employer.” Well, the overarching reason is because this's what’s written; and since Abram’s one recorded instance of tithing's used as a major part of the justification for Christians to tithe, it's reasonable to expect the application of all of what's happening in this account. But, this can’t be done either, because what Abram (not Abraham) did is against what the Old Testament commands concerning tithe; how to do it, where to do it, where to put it, who gets to do it, and whom to do it to, 400 years after Abram. Or doesn't this swing both ways? The logical student will not take cultural traditions from thousands of years ago, and apply them today just because they're recorded in the Bible (unless it’s clearly stated we should apply them as in Acts 15). Not all synergy is equal, but all cults are the same. God tells us when to synergize, not a workshop. Acts 15 again, sorry.
But also, elsewhere in the word of God, with issues not relate to money (is a church really supposed to be a business? yes — RWD), the narrow interpretation is always taught. For examples:
Baptism by immersion only—because this is the way John did it. Although a case could be made water Baptism should only be done in a river, or running/living water, not in a baptismal pool. Or even only in the Jordan River, if it weren’t for the eunuch.
Tongues/Glossolalia—the only proof of Holy Spirit Baptism, because this is how it happened in Acts. Although the “rushing mighty wind,” the “cloven tongues of fire,” and the “miraculous works following” aspect is always given short shrift. The Gift of Administration is not a Pentecost(al) proof of Holy Spirit Baptism.
Holy Communion—Welch’s™ Grape Juice or MD20/20 served in clear-plastic shot glasses, and tiny unleavened saltines served on faux gold platters, because this is the way Jesus did it. Although, Jesus also held His Holy Communion as a normal part of the Passover feast. He wasn't instituting some new thing. Being innovative or creative like NTCC. But this part isn’t followed by today’s church either—again, the ‘this cup’ and the ‘this bread’ was the Passover cup and bread. Symbolizing an aspect of Christ’s earthly life/atoning sacrifice, and was part of a feast, with no relationship to the arbitrary, abbreviated, miserly, rote ceremony Christian's have turned it into. Plus, Christ is our Passover & on and on - JHO.
Stated differently, I’m not the one nit-picking and choosing how to understand/apply the Bible. Just some linear thinking, which always reveals inconsistencies among the Cultist's; along with their deconstruction. They synergize & deconstruct simultaneously. Like we said, not all synergy is equal.
A key point in the modern mandatory tither’s argument is Abram gave one tithe 400 years before the Mosaic Law was written in stone. As if this's proof Christians should also tithe. Yet, at the beginning of Genesis, we remember how Adam sinned, and God provided a sacrificial and suitable (God approved) covering for sin. The mandatory Christian tithers don’t acknowledge Christ mission & the ceremonial law were foreshadowed in the Torah at Genesis 3:21, almost 2,000 years before Abram. So, sacrifices are more antiquated than tithing. They accept sacrifice as being abolished, but tithe should be enforced (See Question 3)? Probably because the mandatory Christian tithe enforcers are about the Pastor's business. And church IS a business — RWD.
Maybe an addition to their "I love my cult!" t-shirt could be "We synergize with aplomb & deconstruct with Abaddon!" on the back of it? Or maybe, "Molesting the Bible since 1969!" Or, more accurately, "Molesting & Bible since 1969!"
Let's continue, 'cause guaranteed, our cult dullard's still ain't buyin' it. They didn't stay teachable — JHO. I would love to be wrong in this.
MOSES' TITHE
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THE CHRISTIAN...this again?
After God gave the written Law, the Jews became a people of a book. Therefore, any traditions or practices prior to this are moot & inadmissible. So, the dispensations of innocence & conscience were moot. The same goes for Christians; we have become a people of a book…albeit a New Book/Testament/Covenant/Dispensation. It's the Law which shall not pass until all be fulfilled (the Torah has been), not Abram’s endemic & anemic tithe record (he wouldn’t be allowed to attend an NTCC Conference, lead a song-service, or attend Seminary).
Why keep granting the Christian should tithe, when it's not Biblically plausible? Because this potentially/theoretically gets us much farther toward consensus/change—at least for the non-agenda driven seeker—than any other tack I've read. Because this forces them to bypass their rote, and now knee-jerk ‘to tithe, or not to tithe’ defense, and defend why the cash tithe given to NTCC is not exclusively for food & “…is not to be given to charity…,” since charity & food is exactly what God has declared (in His OT) tithe should be ordained for.
A charitable inheritance for the Levite earned through their ministrations, charity to the poor, widows, stranger, et cetera, and charity funded celebrations of God (for our own, and others, benefit/enjoyment) for his glory. NTCC’s preferred (and only) methods of spending/hording, and not distributing tithe, omit/bypass “the law, judgment, mercy, and faith.” NTCC claims the full gospel designation, so we should reasonably expect to see evidence of this. Remember when they were a "Full Gospel, Non-Denominational, Holiness, Pentecostal Church?" I think they dropped this too, at least they don't say it anymore. Just sayin’, so don’t kill the messenger. Charity (alms) is an activity also strongly promoted in the New.
Not an exhaustive study. Just citing/discussing a few verses. This article can be fleshed out in the comments section.
Leviticus 27:30-33 “And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lords: it is holy unto the Lord. And if a man will redeem aught of his tithe, he shall add unto it a fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and that for which it is changed shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.”
Here's what NTCC ignores (the fact anyone has to ignore anything neutralizes any Old Testament justification for Christian tithe) from this portion of scripture:
~ Tithe is agricultural only.
~ Tithe can be bought back with a 20% simple interest on the amount of the tithe. So the simple interest on $100 in tithe is $20. We also have to ignore this because how can one buy back money & why?
~ No determination's to be made whether cash tithe is good or bad. This would be good news to the prostitute, drug dealer, gambler, thief, et cetera…if churches would only accept the tithe from these types of activities (after the NTCC Testament pattern).
What I am not willing to ignore from this portion of scripture:
~ Well, to ease NTCC toward truth, I'll ignore everything contained in this verse, other than the word ‘tithe.’
• Maybe this is the key to understanding the tithe non-issue…Anytime the word ‘tithe’ appears in the Bible, this is proof “All Christians pay tithe, and give offerings (cash only please) & isn't to be used charitably.” Context be damned. All for me, none for thee.
FIRST example of TITHE — Numbers 18:21-24 “And unto the children of Levi, behold, I have given all the tithe in Israel for an inheritance, in return for their service which they serve, even the service of the tent of meeting. And henceforth the children of Israel shall not come nigh the tent of meeting, lest they bear sin, and die. But the Levites shall do the service of the tent of meeting, and they shall bear their iniquity: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, and among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. For the tithe of the children of Israel, which they offer as a heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites for an inheritance.”
Here's what NTCC ignores from this portion of scripture:
~ Tithe is for the children of Levi only (i.e. excludes any other tribe/family, or any non-Levite Christian, and all Gentiles). The very law itself excludes 11 other tribes from getting tithe & NTCC still wants a cut?
• An interesting point is modern Jews do not tithe (because they can’t, according to the Torah), and they are invariably blessed financially. So much for the recurring NTCC statement “God gets his tithe one way or the other.”
~ Christians will be struck dead if they go to church (tent of meeting).
~ The statute of tithe is for the children of Israel & a heave offering to the Levites. Therefore not authorized for the 11, but intended for pastors? This is another thing conspicuously ignored by mandatory tithe adherents…the Old Testament tithe was done a certain way (Torah defined), by a certain people (Jews only), in a certain place (Middle East), during a certain time (until John/Jesus, or if you prefer, until Christ was resurrected or the temple was destroyed). Just as the Sabbath was. When's Friday’s sundown during the far north’s 6 month day again? Saturdays sundown? A local natural phenomenon delineates the sabbath.
• Again, the Bible says the Law's in effect (will not pass away) until all be fulfilled (it has), but it's only in effect for those who've not accepted Christ as Savior. I'll not be judged by the Law. No Jew who becomes a Christian will be judged by the law. These are the only two choices…Grace or the Law. And the reason both are in effect is because between the two, God is able to righteously judge all mankind. The Law is not still in effect (will not pass) so the Gentile Christian are ensnared by what the Jews don’t/can’t even follow, or so man can combine the two in any manner his caprice dictates. Plus, the NT tells us we are free from the law of sin and death.
~ Tithe was pay for a specific type of service in the tent of meeting (because God shares why it was paid). Since this service had the specific purpose of shielding Israel’s sin debt from God, while our sin debt was expunged in Christ. Yet, Pastor Davis believes God for us (except where the healing of his immediate family or ministers are concerned, then off to the doctor they go). Why to our Cult members have their babies in a hospital? They lack faith.
What I'm not willing to ignore from this portion of scripture:
~ Well…I will have to ignore everything contained in this verse, other than the word ‘tithe’ to move this study along.
SECOND example of TITHE — Deuteronomy 14:22-27 “Thou shalt surely tithe all the increase of thy seed, that which cometh forth of the field year by year. And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which He shall choose to cause His name to dwell there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herd and of thy flock; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set His name there, when the Lord thy God shall bless thee: then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: and thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thy soul desireth, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul asketh of thee: and thou shalt eat there before the lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thy household: and the Levite that is within thy gates.”
Here's what NTCC ignores from this portion of scripture:
~ Tithe is agricultural only.
• Ironically, to obey this ‘feast’ portion of the Old Testament tithe command, the mandatory tithe enforcer must convert his ‘cash’ tithe into groceries & can include alcohol. Just sayin' what's written, so start sippin'.
What I'm not willing to ignore from this portion of scripture:
~ This tithe took the form of a feast (I will ignore this feast is to occur at the physical place on earth God the Father had chosen to dwell in a corporal manifestation; whether it's Tabernacle or Temple).
~ Part (or even all) of the feast can be wine or strong drink (just to keep things interesting), if the tither (or heathen guest) so chooses. Just sayin' what's written.
THIRD example of TITHE — Deuteronomy 12:6-7 “And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and the heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock: and there you shall eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households.”
Here's what NTCC ignores from this portion of scripture:
~ There's no earthly Temple or Tabernacle anymore.
~ Tithe was for burnt offerings, heave offerings, vows, freewill offerings, firstlings of animals, and sacrifices.
What I'm not willing to ignore from this portion of scripture:
~ Tithe took the form of an open feast. Sinners & alcohol welcomed.
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 “At the end of every three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase in the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates; and the Levite, because he hath no portion nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.”
Here's what NTCC ignores from this portion of scripture:
~ Everything.
What I'm not willing to ignore from this portion of scripture:
~ This once-every-three-year tithe took the form of an open feast at a person’s homestead, supplied by the persons entire tithe for the year (nothing for the local church every third year, or for HQ). A feast to include the Levite (Pastor?), stranger (non-Jew/sinner), fatherless (how about the childless, as is the legislated condition of most NTCC couples), and widowed. There'll soon be more instances of this as NTCC’s ministers are fast approaching the end of life, and women historically now live longer than men & folks in NTCC eat mostly a crap diets, between their latest fad diets.
• These different tithes added up to potentially as much as 30% for some years. But, no tithe was paid every 7th year. This would result in no income for a church business during the 3, 6 & 7th years. There are other intricacies involved, to be in complete compliance, but hopefully I’ve made my point. But what is my point? Well, if you're going to tithe, here's the policy, do it God’s way. The written instruction are before you. Don’t make random stuff up, it's not necessary, the written instructions are before you. Don't synergize & pass it off as God’s requirement & deconstruct to prove it, so you can fund a bloated extra-Biblical church bureaucracy and real estate program, blocking all outlets for the charitable distribution of corporate income.
RULE 12: Since any critique should also provide a solution to be useful (Alinsky), here’s my solution on how NTCC could more accurately/completely observe God’s Old Testament mandatory tithe command:
1. Have a week-long feast two (or more) times per year (they could still use the campground & even call it a Conference).
2. Open it to the general public (they could still use the campground).
3. Every third year, only one feast (or even one year long feast), and this at the person’s home (i.e. no NTCC National Conferences every third year, and no groceries for HQ…overseers can still visit; maybe you can get Pastor Davis to attend your feast, as long as you pay his way there & don't serve cake).
4. Every seventh year, no feasts at all.
5. Allow any type of food or alcohol to be consumed during a feast.
6. No preaching, teaching, or exhorting (the tithers rejoice as they please, with no requirement for the non-tithers to do anything other than eat and/or drink).
7. No dress code (since the ‘stranger’ is Biblically allowed to attend) for the non-tither. But no nudity. Keep the tasty bits covered.
8. Still restrict showers to a mandatory 5 minutes, and still afford everyone the privilege of providing their own toilet paper & towels. Continue to not provide maid service or bedding, while still charging full secular motel rates. You can also apply this policy at your own home year round, or just during the every-third-year feast.
• Around 1981, I lived in a boarding house in Fort Worth, and it was not owned or run by church folks. The charge was 70 bucks a week. For this I got a room (shared with one other dude), 3 meals a day (all you could hold cooked Texas breakfast and dinner, and a substantial Texas sack lunch to go) 6 days a week (but Texas sack lunches were available on Sunday), bi-weekly maid service, temperature controlled room (swamp cooler), and a common bathroom per 2 rooms (with toilet paper included, and no time limit on showers/baths, our bathroom only had a bathtub, gross I know, but I gave it a good scour before my dip, or took a standing bath mostly).
They even set a heaping plate of food aside for you if you told them you were working late. We provided our own towels and linen. You could even show up during meals if you didn’t live there, pay $2.50 (or give the cook a 6-pack, or pack of smokes), and eat all you wanted, or even eat for free if you had to, and didn’t do it too often. There was no curfew, or visiting restrictions (other than no females), and you could even hang outside after dark & drink, smoke & even smoock ladies if you wanted.
Compare this with what you get for your 140 bucks per Conference on the Campground (isn’t the campground paid for by now). I know Servicemen’s Homes are not a better deal than my boarding house (or Conference), but the operating expenses for the Homes are not managed by HQ, those of the Campground are. Plus, you have to pay to get to Camp. Plus, I wasn’t paying tithe and offerings at the Boarding House. For me, tithes and offerings made my ‘rent’ for the Servicemen’s Home about $1,000/month in 1993. For this I received a tiny shared room and shared bathrooms, and access to the common areas, yard, street parking & great shared dinners. I loved it. Yet, HQ always touts Servicemen's Homes and the Campground as such great bargains...and a blessing?
MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
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THINGS TO THINK ABOUT
• Tithe under the law was only for the purpose of giving the Levites an inheritance (though it was also used for general feasts); yet the Christian’s inheritance is Christ. Can/Should the case be made if you want the Levite’s inheritance, you exclude yourself from the Christian’s inheritance?
• Jacob made a vow to (among other things) tithe from his increase. If tithe was the universal heathen norm (as proponents of Christian tithe aver), why the vow? Was he peacocking/cackling? But, how could Jacob tithe with no Levites and no national tabernacle/temple in place yet? Doesn't matter, the Bible doesn't say. One way's he could have given it to anyone in need (or he even broke his vow, if he was peacocking & cackling).
• Jewish Rabbis today (those who should know the Mosaic Law better than Gentile Pastors), do not collect tithes because they know only Levites can receive tithe. It's the Law. Since the genealogical records were destroyed in the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, Jews can no longer determine true Levites. This's also Law.
• Cain and Abel gave offerings, not tithe. Also, Abel brought the firstborn of his flock, so this couldn’t have been tithe (unless the firstborn of his flock [only 1 sheep can be the firstborn] was also 10% or more). Cain’s could have been. Or maybe it was the firstborn of each ewe. In which case it would probably have been more than 10%. The Adam's Family boys were offering 'first fruits' not tithe.
• The only purpose for tithe, as stated in the entire Old Testament Law, was as an inheritance for the Levite, and for the sole purpose of their sustenance (since it was only agricultural products), and for open feasts (everyone is invited). This is why Old Testament tithe was always agricultural. Not for a house payment (they were provided cities, and farm land), car payment, college for the Pastor’s kid(s), hookers, church buildings, et cetera...food only. But hookers are allowed at feasts.
RULE 12: So provide (if you want to) the Pastor (and his family) with a parsonage, furniture, appliances, clothing, car, and gasoline, pay his utilities, pay his cable/internet/NyQuil-highball/phone bill, send his kid(s) to college, et cetera as an offering; then convert 10% of your income (your tithe) into groceries, and what they (the Pastor) don’t eat can be used to operate a soup kitchen and/or pantry to feed the poor, widows, and/or non-Christians, and for twice (or more) yearly church feasts. I guess you could even give your tithe in cash, but only if there is a stipulation tithe is to be put into a single purpose checking account, only to be used to feed the Pastor and his family, the poor, widows, and/or non-Christians, and for twice (or more) yearly church feasts.
• RULE 12: Since the ‘tithe feasts’ for the entire nation of Israel were only located in one place, there should only be one huge Church/Tabernacle/Temple for the world-wide body of Christ to meet for mandatory feasts (like Mecca for the Muslims or a past Billy Graham venue); church denomination would not be allowed to be a consideration (sorry NTCC). So, no need for local church buildings (sorry NTCC), or all the costs associated with them (sorry NTCC). But, you can have ‘home church’ (sorry NTCC) after the pattern contained in the New Testament (sorry NTCC). Or, because NTCC is so aggressively insular (no synergy), they can only have theirs at their campground (no toilet paper, linens, towels, or maid service provided).
• Since all the word ‘sabbath’ means is rest (like the only thing tithe means is 10%), why do we have mandatory church? Could this ‘gathering of ourselves together’ we are not supposed to forsake actually be for a ‘feast?’ Very likely.
• I have yet to read an in-depth tithe book, or article, which doesn’t somewhere, at least intimate, there's little (no) support in the New Testament for tithe. This's why all in-depth arguments for tithe rely so heavily on curated portions (never from Leviticus) of the Old Testament, church history, secular customs and history, the Apocrypha, non-linear logic/reasoning (even the Talmud, of all things), et cetera. Therefore, if one’s conscience/interpretation will enable a person to promote/enforce Christian tithe because it's contained in the Old Testament (and it is clearly there, of this there's no argument), then they should also be willing to adhere as closely as one's able to at least the purpose for (charity) its existence (and even its form—i.e. agricultural products only—if one was really as fanatical about tithe as its adherents would like us to believe they are). This's only if one wishes to be consistent/Biblical.
• RULE 12: The nation of Israel was Commanded to tithe to the Levites, and the Levites were Commanded to tithe to the High Priest (Numbers 18:24-28). Therefore, since all Christians are now spiritually Levites, if we have to tithe, we should only tithe 1% of our income (1/10 of 1/10 is 1%) to a Pastor (High Priest). A Pastor (loosely using the Old Testament as a pattern) doesn’t have to tithe anything. The tithe from $100 would/should be $1 for the born again congregant. We (as spiritual Levites, and non-Pastors) keep the 9% & the 90%. So why don’t I count all Christians income as tithe-able, since it is taught all income is an increase? Well, I am trying to mimic Old Testament tithe for implementation instructions in our dispensation. Therefore, since by and large our income doesn’t come from spiritual ministrations, but secular sources (our secular job), so logically our income could be counted as if it was coming from the non-Levite tribes of Israel. They gave 10%, and then the Levite priest gave 10% of the 10% to the High Priest. If 100% of our pay comes from secular pursuits/sources, 10% of this we pay to ourselves, and 10% of this 10% we pay to our Pastor.
The Pastor (High Priest) doesn’t pay tithe on any income (or benefit) he receives from the church. For a church with 20 tithe payers, each making $2,000/month, this is $400/month for food. Plenty for a Pastor (not divorced), his wife (not divorced), and a few children. Not much left over to feed others, but as he is faithful, and works the NTCC Blitzkrieg program, attendance is guaranteed to increase, and before long there'll be free church feasts for all every Conference...Glory!
If Pastor Davis [RIP 2014] now also wants to exclusively claim the title ‘High Priest’ (in addition to Apostle, Is NTCC, Business Man, Can’t Remember/Never Missed/All I Do, Senior Pastor, First Up, Doctor, PhD, Here First, et cetera), NTCC’s Pastors should pay only 1% to Pastor Davis.
• Why are NTCC’s ministers allowed to marry divorced women when this violates Leviticus 21:7? Remember, there is nothing in the New Testament cancelling this. Nor will following Leviticus 21:7 contradict anything written in the New. There's no loophole for being able to marry if your divorce was for one of the authorized causes (death, adultery, desertion) in the NT. The honest mandatory tithe adherent will choose the strictest when presented with choices. Just the fact of a divorce disqualifies from remarriage in the OT. But, our loophole's Christ.
• From the entrance of the people into Canaan to the reign of Solomon—a space of nearly five hundred years—there's nothing specifically mentioned about tithes. Lots about offerings though. It's inarguable there's not much on tithe in the New Testament, but it should possibly be noted there is not much more contained in the Old. Yes, there's enough Old Testament tithe verses to meet the ‘two or three witnesses’ requirement, but not much more.
BESIDES TITHING the Pentateuch commanded the non-Levite Jew to give offerings (and not just to the Tabernacle/Temple). This offering for the poor was not tithed on (as follows):
Leviticus 19:9-10 “When ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleaning of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather the fallen fruit of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and for the stranger, I am the Lord thy God.”
• This scripture commands an offering be given to the poor (with no stipulation they be Jewish—or in our case NTCC), and the non-Jew (stranger). Nothing in the New Testament has done away with this.
Again:
Deuteronomy 24:19-21 “When thou reapest thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands. When though beatest thine olive tree, thou shall not go over the boughs again. When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it after thee; it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.”
• So why do I include the two directly above portions of scripture, which inarguably deal only with offerings? One reason's because no tithe was paid on offerings. OT tithe was only ever after expenses. But, using the mandatory tither’s logic the commandments to give offerings to the poor have not been done away with, because there's no portion of the New Testament which does away with them (one of the arguments to support using the Old Testament to validate Christian tithe).
• In spite of what the Bible clearly commands (as seen above), NTCC chose to include “…not to be given to charity…” in the tithing portion of their Doctrinal Statement. Maybe because, for NTCC, the Body of Christ and God’s work through his people on earth truly is a business—pity—and what is a business without profits? A synergy of grace & business. A deconstruction of God's methods becomes practical uselessness. So why settle for a little profit when you can have lots of profit. And why use the toilet at McDonalds & pay at Little Caesars when you just ate at Taco Bell?
And let’s not forget the Law concerning things Jews had to pay shekels for (only if they wanted to redeem them; See Leviticus 27). This is how cash was injected into the Temple program, and among the Priests. The tithe was not used to accomplish this. This has not been done away with in the New Testament either. Of course, we have been redeemed in Christ. Although, Christ is also our inheritance; yet NTCC also wants the Levite's inheritance (the tithe). Modern synergy religion?
Deuteronomy 16:16-17 commands: “Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord thy God in the place which He shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the Lord empty: every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the Lord thy God which He hath given thee.” This has not been done away with in the New Testament either.
QUESTIONS
&
MORE QUESTIONS
1. If tithe was intended to be perpetual, or carried over to Christians, why is it stressed in every Old Testament instance tithe is mentioned, it is for the Levite only? And why is tithe not mentioned in Acts 15? The Temple was even still standing at this point, with genealogical records intact. Mankind’s covenantal relationship with God is no longer through the Old Covenant. We're now in a covenantal relationship with God through a New Covenant ratified by Jesus Christ, not Moses (or Abram or Adam).
2. Why don’t mandatory tithe teaching churches ever teach against gluttony? Why is gluttony such a popular/acceptable sin among those in the Body of Christ? No drinking, no gambling, no lying, minimal fornication, no bowling, et cetera, but eat all you want at the buffet. Either there's an epidemic of glandular problems among those in the Body of Christ (God could heal them...right?) or some fat folks are gluttonous. You decide.
3. Since all of the fleshly Old Testament types (circumcision, sacrifices, the Tabernacle/Temple, the Levites, the alter, the High Priest, et cetera) have now become a reality through Christ, why does the requirement for tithe (the major purpose of which was to support the Old Testament temporary temporal types, which [again] have all been done away with) remain in some people’s mind?
4. Of the 613 laws (Dake says) contained in the first five books of the Bible written by Moses, why is it, aside from the Ten Commandments, tithing is virtually the only other law (not contained in the New Testament) the modern Church retains? But, they retain it in name only, since there's no similarity between Moses’ law of tithing (or Abram’s) and modern Christian tithing, except the aspect of the ten percent Webster's definition of the word. Christian tithing is an extra-biblical concept and doctrine—aside from the ten percent it has nothing in common with the pattern and purpose for the tithing law of Moses (or even Abram’s or Cain's ‘example’).
5. Why does NTCC require all their Pastors to pay tithe? Is Pastor Davis the High Priest?
6. Why does the leadership of NTCC say, “We recognize the scriptural duty of all people, as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord. Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and work of the Lord, and are not to be given to charity or used for other purposes.” while simultaneously ignoring/not doing as much as they can concerning what the Old Testament commands concerning tithe?
7. Why tithe on ‘before taxes’ income? If we pay taxes (with sales tax, property tax, federal and state income tax, et cetera we only get about 50% of our pay), or give offerings from what we make, this part of our pay is not an increase. Did the Jews tithe on dead animals, failed crops, or the corners they didn’t harvest? Did those receiving charity tithe on what they received? NTCC teaches you must tithe on your welfare check and food stamps. If a cow's dead it can’t pass under the rod, and if a crop fails it cannot be harvested.
8. Why didn’t God include ‘tithe’ in the 10 Commandments?
9. Why are NTCC’s ministers allowed to marry divorced women when this violates Leviticus 21:7? Remember, there's nothing in the New Testament cancelling this. Nor will following Leviticus 21:7 contradict anything written in the New (see also PERSONAL NOTE above).
CONCLUSION:
Instead of benefiting the Ministry & the needy, modern tithing is the main source of funds for building religious real-estate empires.
Old Testament tithe was only ever used for Levite support, feasts (i.e. charity, even if it is not directly stated in the verse), and charity…without exception. This's why I didn’t have to expound on every Old Testament tithe verse (although, there aren’t many more of them)—they don’t contradict the premise. Yes, tithe does mean 10%, but this is all it means & all which's ever taught/stressed by the mandatory tithe enforcer/promoter. But, God’s word also defines the 1/10th’s form (agricultural), location (only at the Tabernacle/Temple) for paying, and purposes (the tribe of Levi’s inheritance, and substance for feasts and charity).
It is illogical/disingenuous to teach Hebrews 7:18 abolishes every ordinance pertaining to the Levitical priesthood except tithing. All of Hebrews is a witness against mandatory Christian tithe. Posting a link to it could replace this whole article if folks had stayed teachable. Dullards. But, many Hebrews were also not teachable. But they didn't have internet either. Furthermore, in all the 70 (160 in the OT) New Testament references to Abraham (not Abram @ 50 OT references & not mentioned in the NT), the only practice of his the New Testament tells us to follow is faith.
It's inarguable Gentiles had no obligation to tithe in the Old Testament, but we do now? So stop arguing with the New Testament. Stop synergizing & start contextualizing. Stop generalizing & start differentiating. Stop deconstructing & start building. Focused, not myopic. Teachable, not intransigent. Heed, not ignore. Works, not workshops. Holiness, not hypocrisy. Love (charity) not loot (cash). Heaven, not Hell. Purity, not perversion.
Regarding NTCC: "A permissive society, also referred to as permissive culture, is used to describe a society in which social norms become increasingly liberal, especially with regard to sexual freedom and profanity. The term is often used pejoratively by cultural conservatives to criticize what is seen as a breakdown in traditional values, such as greater acceptance of premarital sex, an increase in divorce rates, and acceptance of non-traditional relationships such as cohabitation and homosexuality." — Wikipedia [retrieved summer 2025]
It's absurd (and disingenuous) to cite Old Testament scripture as proof of a Commandment for Christians to tithe—and in the absence of any New Testament directive how this nefarious/nebulous tithe is supposed to be exercised—then choose an application (to run a modern bloated non-charitable corporate church program) and form (cash only) for tithe, contrary to these same verses.
RULE 12: If you want to tithe, do it. But, consider doing-it in a manner as close as possible to what the Jews were commanded to do, and ensure you invite me to the feast. If you insist on receiving cash tithe (and don’t want to use it for food), ensure you give it away (include ‘sinners’ also), in accordance with the Old Testament command, and Christ’s teaching on feasts. Plus, as a tithe-getter, you'll be judged with unconverted Jews by God. Again, don't kill the messenger (me), you have enough troubles coming your way.
RULE 12: If you receive tithe, use it in a manner as close as possible to what the Jews were commanded to do, and ensure you invite me to the feast & know, be assured, you'll be judged with unconverted Jews by God. I assume, God's children paying tithe will get a STAY OUT OF HELL pass since we were deceived by NTCC.
19 comments:
Gregory the Unlearned said,
"The mandatory Christian tithers don’t acknowledge that the ceremonial law started at Genesis 3:15, thousands of years prior to Abram. Although sacrifices are more antiquated than tithing, they accept sacrifices as being abolished, but tithe should be enforced. Probably because the mandatory Christian tithe enforcers are about the Father’s ‘business.’"
Ange says,
That was my favorite part (so far) of this piece. We must really have a short computer screen, because on our monitor there are 84 pages to this article. =D There are also ?four? other tithe related articles on this blog. Truly, of making many books there is no end. Nevertheless I hope it helps somebody find peace in Christ.
DnA,
It's 24 .doc pages. I started typing and couldn't/didn't stop.
4 articles so far. I have one more, and maybe one more after that.
Sorry so long. But I didn't want to dribble some of what I had to say about the OT out into multiple post. I didn't feel this was necessary since we do not get much 'business' over here.
Which is not a problem. I don't want to have to take the time to respond to a lot of comments. Plus, my main concern has been to provide links so people can do their own research.
If anyone cares to, try to point our any error in this piece. I want the reasonings to be air tight, so they will stand up to intense critical examination.
Gregory
GS or DS said:
"Why tithe on ‘before taxes’ income? If we pay taxes (with sales tax, property tax, federal and state income tax, et cetera we only get about 50% of our pay), or give offerings from what we make, that part of our pay is not an increase."
DnA said:
50% is a very conservative estimate if you figure that we pay taxes on every good and service we buy. We pay taxes on phone service, cable, internet, electricity, etc. Also taxes are incorporated into everything we buy. Not only are there fuel taxes in each state but prices are raise so that oil companies can pay their taxes. When the government raises taxes on business they incorporate those tax hikes into the price that we pay for their products. I figured out that I paid somewhere between 80 and 90% in taxes when I was an owner operator driving a truck. This is a little higher than most people because of all the trucking taxes but people really pay close to 65 or 70% when all is said and done.
We pay tithe before uncle sam get's his because the work of the Lord demands it. After all we had no problem giving our money to the devil. We do not get to choose what we spend our money on as members of the ntcc. God has appointed leaders in the ntcc that have received the divine tithe revelation from on high and we have no business questioning these mandates that have been imparted to them. Can you tell this subject ruffles my feathers a bit?
I look back at the 10's of thousands that I gave them over time and what it went toward and it makes me cringe, but I guess it's just an expensive learning experience. I feel like this money was stolen from me by a master con artist. Hopefully time will heal this wound.
DnA
DnA,
Good points. I know mine was a conservative estimate, I just didn't know how conservative it was. Thanks for the info.
Would you agree that if you are paying taxes and giving offerings that part of your pay check is not an increase?
The OT Jews did not tithe on offerings (if the Bible is to be believed).
Money that is not an increase can't pass under the rod. Money that we use for bills can't pass under the rod. Sheep they ate before tithe time couldn't pass under the rod.
Gregory
Gregory,
I would absolutely agree with you that if paying tithe were a requirement that it would not include money that you never see, ie, taxes. This is really eye opening stuff that you touched on. If tithe were a requirement of God these are the parameters that one would have to go by:
1. Tithe would have to be done of free will and it would have to be explained to all church members that there is no heaven and hell ultimatum attached to it.
2. Tithe would have to be used to help the poor, the stranger, the widow, the fatherless.
3. Tithe would not be questioned by the leaders of the church. It would be between the giver and God.
4. Tithe would be paid on actual increase. Money that goes to Uncle Sam is not an increase. I never see it, never touch it. If I do ever get social security and I want to pay tithe on that out of my own free will, I will do so at the time that it becomes an increase.
If I ever pay tithe again it will not be in the form of 10% cash given to greedy church leaders that use it for their own prosperity. We were taken for a ride by some very crafty people. If you look at the ntcc's model for tithe, the ultimatums that went along with it and the number of people that followed the letter of the law (ntcc's law) concerning tithe it is staggering how much money was ripped off from us.
I personally don't think that Rwd was ever saved or if he was it was way before he started the ntcc. Other denominations practice tithe and there probably are a few that will place you in hell if you don't pay it. If you advertise to the world that you are God's chosen apostle and that you are the leader of a group of people that are the last move of God and the only true church on planet earth, and you require people to pay 10% before deductions which is more than double tithe in many cases, and you place people in hell by attaching ultimatums to your false doctrine, you are a crook, a thief and a robber. If God has spoken to him why didn't God rebuke him for stealing money from people that had less than he did? Why didn't God rebuke him for spending our money on outlandish and completely unnecessary amenities for himself and his family? Not sure of anyone that has ever seen this dude do any of the things he demands of his followers. Has anyone ever seen him knock on a door? Has anyone ever seen him open his wallet and give a dollar to a homeless person? Has anyone ever seen him give more than lip service to forgive his brother 70 times 7? Or maybe even once?
Tithe is not required of New Testament Christians PERIOD. It would be a huge stretch to impose ntcc style cash only tithe on Christians in any manner. Even if the funds were handled responsibly and distributed properly, transparently and willfully given, it has never been a requirement and especially in the New Testament. But when you abuse your office and misrepresent your status as a tax exempt non profit organization and preach fire and brimstone to motivate to place fear in the hearts of your followers for the sole purpose of extorting huge amounts of money to use as you please, living in excess, buying mansions and recreational vehicles while the people you are extracting the money from are struggling to pay their electric bills and provide food shelter and clothing for their families, you are an extortionist and there is no salvation whatsoever in your heart.
From the heart of Don and Ange
Hello to both of our followers,
For the 2 or 3 of you that follow this blog, I wanted to let you know I have updated this article. By both editing what is there and making additions. I have been arguing with myself seeing if I could poke any holes in my argument, and as things came to mind I made the changes. The reason I do this is to be in obedience to God's commandment contained in 2 Corinthians 10:12. So now it is even more inarguable, as is evidenced by the persistent lack of response.
Gregory
Great article Greg. You put a lot of thought and effort into it. All the stuff you wrote can't be refuted by anybody who desires to think logically and rationally. The problem is, not many of us were interested in thinking logically or rationally while we were in the NTCC. We were all quite brainwashed and effectively so.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
Glad you had a great vacation. Deb and I are going to a 4 day family reunion in about a week. We go every year now, and always have a great time.
As far as the article goes, I didn't expect a lot of negative comments (what could they say). But, I am sure they are feverishly working on a response anyway (they have to protect their profits). It's been up for about 8 days now.
Gregory
GS or DS said,
"(they have to protect their profits)"
DnA said,
Did you mean prophets?
Not sure if any response can be conjured up without twisting or "wrestling" the scriptures. The scriptures have already been twisted so much that the "all Christians pay tithe" scriptures are unrecognizable.
DnA
Yeah I was gone for seven days. Vacation was great. My little boy had a blast. We all did. I plan to do that kind of thing more often. Why should the Kekels have all the fun? My family deserves no less and the NTCC won't persuade me to deprive them again, I can promise you that.
St. Thomas and St. Martin were a blast. We rented a Jet Ski and road it a long way around the island of St. Thomas. Such fun. Nothing different than what the Kekels have been participating in for years. The NTCC has placed restrictions on everyone but the Kekels for a long time now and it's time to break that trend. Enjoy life to the fullest and don't let the NTCC guilt trip you into doing otherwise. My boy is enjoying his childhood. If you are in the NTCC and your kids are not enjoying their childhood to the fullest, you need to ask your self why, especially given the type of childhood that G. Kekel was afforded for so long.
Jet Skies, putt-putt, golf, sports, vacations. If you can't serve God and do all that, then you better stop following the Kekels because Grant Kekel did a whole lot more than that and now he is attending a secular catholic college. If you don't agree with all that, you may want to consider firing Mike Kekel as your leader. That means leaving the NTCC. Either that or let your children have no less.
Jeff
Hello All,
10 days, and still no negative response/refutation...
NTCC is winning,
Gregory
You can say all the things about what happened to you and things you seen and heard. Fine I was not there. But what happens to all those who read your blog and the information and it turns out at the judgement you were wrong.
Like I said I don't know all the facts about what happened to you and many on this site, but tithe was before the law, Jesus said do it, (Pay tithe) and you know what he never said to stop paying. And that's good enough for me.
Be careful even typed words will be recalled and given an account for.
Sorry anonymous,
Did you even read Gregory's post? I was hoping somebody with some intelligence; (not saying that you are unintelligent); would show us in the bible where tithe = money. Math is a universal language so lets do the math.
10% of agricultural goods given to the Levites = 10% of money given to local pastor.
10% of the Levitical tithe was given to the Sons of Aaron = 10% pastor's tithe + 10% Church tithe to be paid in cash to Graham Washington.
This is ntcc fuzzy math. First of all can anyone show us where tithe in the bible = cash? They had money back than but tithe wasn't about Church leaders getting rich and providing a double standard for their families so that they can live in luxury while many people in the organization are barely getting by.
What happens if you are wrong on judgement day? What if the tithe that you pay is really supposed to go to the widows, orpans and poor but you gave it to your church leaders that used it to put their sinner grand son through catholic law school, and to buy thousands of dollars worth of useless furniture to put in their mansions and to purchase more brand new Cadillacs, Beemers, Mercedes and plush new Recreational Vehicles and more summer residential palaces in Arizona? I would much rather be judged for not paying 10% cash to these scoundrels that are going to misappropriate God's money and misrepresent where it all goes. You would be better served to give your money to your local homeless shelter or even to one of thousands of charities than you would to the ntcc leadership.
Sorry Gregory, but I'm not sure if you are going to get a better response to your extensive research than what this anonymous poster has offered. There doesn't seem to be any defensible arguement on this subject.
I think it's great research and that it needs attention. If ntcc members would read what you have written and actually study their bibles it would be very hard go reason that tithe = 10% cash before deductions and it would be impossible to justify giving it to leaders that live a double standard. I think where the problem lies is in the deeply seated brain washing and mind control that people trust in feelings rather than the written word. They refuse to admit that the years of sacrifice and being in an exclusive organization would be wasted if they admitted they were wrong on this very subject.
Tithe is much more than a monetary offering to those in the ntcc. It is a badge of honor and a work that justifies them before God and the ntcc. Without tithe there would be no ntcc. Did Jesus ever collect tithe from His followers?
DnA
Anonymous,
Thanks for your input (and concern). I am very careful when I type (although, you will find spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes). I never post in hast or anger, or to gossip or libel, or for revenge, or to protect myself from these types of NTCC posts.
As far as ‘the judgment’ goes, I am not wrong in content or motive. My perception of things in this cult are not wrong based on all that other people have shared (we have a common experience), and my notes, recordings, registered letters, emails, saved IM chats, and other personal archives. NTCC’s character has been established by more than my witness (and long before my/our witness, because NTCC has been exposed online since 2003, and this blog was started by Deborah less than 2 years ago). I want to thank Sister Jordan for telling us (and very many others) about FACTNet in 2004 (she’s very diligent in keeping people informed).
Also, you don’t have to know any facts about what ‘happened’ to me (do you know what happened to me, I would also like to know); you can consult your own experiences. I have often said, those without don’t need a second witness, since those within could provide it.
You don’t have to know any “facts about what happened to me” to understand the Bible, and critically consider what God requires, or the doctrine and practices of any church Corporation.
Regarding tithe, I granted (just for the article) that tithe was still in effect, and this freed me to type 18 .doc pages of text. Did you read it? All of it? Can you refute one point?
Not only did Jesus not say “stop paying,” there is nothing in the NT that tells NTCC how to collect, whom to, and what for. But the OT does…To the Levites, as an inheritance, at the Tabernacle/Temple, for feasts, charity, and in the form of groceries only.
I (and NTCC, though their claim to fame is “Full Gospel”) ignored feasts, Levites, inheritance, Tabernacle/Temple, and groceries (just to move the argument along, not because I think a person should ignore what the Bible says), just as NTCC does. I don’t see any compelling reason to ignore charity since this concept/practice is so clearly prevalent in both Testaments (along with feasts, Levites, inheritance, Tabernacle/Temple, and groceries).
Yet, NTCC teaches/preaches/enforces tithe is “…not to be given to charity…” while simultaneously ignoring feasts, Levites, inheritance, Tabernacle/Temple, groceries, and giving charitably. This is solely NTCC’s choice. They are in complete control of all tithe they receive, and none goes to charity (by their own admission, and as dictated by there own self-drafted Corporate rules). And, they have enough acumen to be able to ignore what the Bible does say to wrest all to their own financial advantage...As is evidenced by their church-business success. But, since I am ignoring what the Bible says, I’m the bad guy?
Using your (and NTCC’s reasoning) Jesus never said to stop obeying Leviticus 21:7. Yet, NTCC has. So, why are NTCC’s ministers allowed to marry divorced women when this violates Leviticus 21:7? Remember, there is nothing in the New Testament that cancels this. Nor will following Leviticus 21:7 contradict anything written in the New.
Gregory
"I want to thank Sister Jordan for telling us (and very many others) about FACTNet in 2004 (she’s very diligent in keeping people informed)."
Which one?
Sis. George Jordan.
Gregory
Hello all,
61 days, and not one person has shown/proved one point from this entire article wrong.
Therefore, it's getting just about time to post the NT article.
Gregory
I'm interested in reading it. What you written can't be proved wrong because it's right.
Chief
It's been over a year since this article was first posted, and nothing from it has been proven wrong.
Gregory
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