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| Money and Numbers |
Wow. Great article Pastor Briggs (RIP).
Very dramatic and emotional read; good writing. We all can relate to the tension that may fill the air when Senior Pastor Davis is in a room. I don’t think this Pastor Briggs testimony is propaganda (as some have shared). He is just relating what happened. His pain and damaged psyche come through loud and clear. Although NTCC will use it for propaganda, and Pastor Briggs is now a marked man, I believe he's sincere. Now NTCC can parade him during conference as another "we are winning" victory over the Holy Spirit and Christian conscience. Expect him to be called upon to testify next conference; he may even preach.
In his article Pastor Briggs presents as damaged and confused person longing for attention, and some semblance of Christian normalcy. Try to spend some time around him next conference, he will have renewed vigor in promoting the party line, while simultaneously doing his own thing back in Pasadena. He has a long road ahead in reestablishing his loyalty (if he is ever even able to, he can at least keep trying). Support him.
While I can appreciate most people’s fear of Pastor Davis (and understand Pastor Briggs' fear, as we have all seen Pastor Davis at his most vicious during class, conference, fellowship, etc), I can't relate personally. I never had a problem with NTCC 'policy', or Pastor Davis (other than his dirty jokes, racist jokes, and frequent use of the "N" word). I would possibly not feel this way if Pastor Davis had treated me as bad as we have all seen him treat others.
Of course we never did our own thing as Pastor Briggs shared he does. Deborah and I always toed the party line, and were company men. Pastor Briggs is the one who proudly bragged about doing his own thing, and being his own man. So why the confusion about the whys and wherefores of organizational direction and leadership? He just ignores it (NTCC policy) anyway (so he’s said) in his striving (keep trying) for the mastery. Yet his striving has yielded a double mind; as Pastor Briggs account shows.
Pastor Briggs wrote, "...it was just that questions concerning the whys and wherefores of organizational direction and leadership were beginning to bring confusion within my mind" This's is another baffling quote. Rev. Briggs' main claim to fame is his bragging he did what he wanted pastoring in Pasadena TX. Validated by his Tele-preaching, his blogs, his church-tv commercials, his comments on ex'er blogs, FACTNet & his side-hustles to make money. So why the sudden concern & confusion about the "whys and wherefores of organizational direction and leadership"?
Pastor Briggs also wrote Pastor Davis' saying, “But before you do brother I need you to talk to me from your heart. Don’t hold back, and don’t tell me what you think I want to hear just talk to me so I can help you”.
We have all also seen this before…NTCC will neglect, neglect, neglect…push, push, push…blast, blast, blast…flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop (this one's recent)—then the 11th hour, and they come forth manifesting their version of the Spirit of Christ (angelic choir soundtrack); assuaging any Holy Ghost inspired trepidations, and the cycle starts again.
This works (for a time) hand-in-hand with Pastor Davis now-annual mildly-acerbic generic public Conference apology. You know the one (also recent), “If I have offended anyone, or done anyone wrong, forgive me.” But, even these vanilla amends don’t jibe with his frequent “All I do is by the Holy Ghost…I can’t remember the last time I sinned…I’ve never missed God” proclamations.
Rev. Briggs most bizarre quote from his confession is: "And my questions were answered. Thank you Pastor for your help! Thank you Rev. Olson for your advice and prayer. And Rev. Kekel, thank you for your friendship when I needed it most. These men are true leaders". Pastor Davis doesn't help, he ignores things & manages repercussions (i.e. Denis). Rev. Olson never dispenses advice (he runs all by Pastor). Rev. Kekel is too focused on his secret normal-secular-lifestyle in his secret-mansion off the compound to be a friend to those idling behind the fence.
Again, one can definitely feel Pastor Briggs' pain, anguish, still lingering confusion & can too easily pity him for the damage caused him, when reading this account.
In His Service,
Gregory
50 comments:
Greg,
It's not often we get to read the truth of how a current ntcc pastor feels, but is afraid to say.
You are absolutely right about the neglect and pushing away and then at the last second, wait don't dispair in the 11th hour. It is truly like an abusive relationship.
That's all I have to say. Briggs, you might want to check and see if I broke any laws with this comment cause I know how nervous it makes you when people exercise their free speech ;)
Since Jeff Keeps deleting a part of this story from his blog I figure you might not mind keeping it in it's entirety Greg....
Now there came a point in that year when I was frantic. I was in trouble when I came, I was now in a live or die state. It came to a point where I couldn’t do it anymore we had an argument and I quite and was headed out to my car. Brian and Al followed me and tried to talk me into “staying”. In our argument which issued about the situation I did throw down my brief case. I did stand face to face with Al and I did curse the word was Sh** and I did say I couldn’t take it anymore. Only three people where there Me, Al and Brian and only we can say what actually happened.
We worked things out that day. I stayed on and after the second year I was grossing close to $100,000 (over 6,000 a week). When that happened the brothers who couldn’t help me when my checks were low wanted then to cut my checks back because I was making to much. Well, my response was simple. You didn’t give me help then your not going to cut me back now. If they could only pay me what I was earning when I was selling less then $100 a week. When I had 6,000 they couldn’t start hedging either.
There is much more I could write about our “discussions” while I worked there but there is no need but let me say this of what I have written above. It was a sin when I cursed…. And I did have to repent… That would have unfit me from the ministry if I was in the active ministry at the time… I was not because I had removed myself.
But let me ask you something would any of you be willing to reveal things so personal about yourself? How about my article you wouldn’t dare to do something like that when you were “in” but why? Because like the woman with the make-up you are to concerned about what people think of you. I even told this story to some brethren at fellowship tonight after church. I don’t have anything to hide.
Anyway, I take that with Jeff’s new found niceness and Greg’s confirmation my articles will remain on my blog and not be copied and brought here. And so I go to do my work. If anyone wants me the email exchange is the only way I will now respond because this is going back to what we have already talked about (this same information above is written on factnet if you want to search through the reams of useless information contained there.
Good bye
Since it keeps getting deleted on Jeff's blog I thought you wouldn't mind posting this
Inquiring minds want to know about the “Knights” experience.
Well lets go there shall we and then we will be through here, you’ve wasted to much of my time already.
In 2003 I was at a very difficult time in my ministry. I was pastoring in Chattanooga but things were tough. I had a good job but the church was not so good. Though it was larger then ever before. And though it had more money than it had the bills were still not being met by the offerings and tithe. I of my own free will and discretion took my personal finances and paid church rents and utilities while neglecting my own. Finally I couldn’t do it anymore and asked for either a replacement or church closure. The latter was the course that was determined. I asked if I could come back to Washington to get my financial status in order and to regroup and figure out what God wanted done in my life. That permission was given.
Next I called a (then) good friend (Brian) and asked if they had a job. I had a toddler, a 7 month pregnant wife, and about $250 to my name. A few days passed and he told me come on we will figure something out. That was good news. He asked me to give them as much time as I could so they could figure out what they could help me with and that I should call them when I was headed their way. We then decided to spend a week with my wife’s family (Lubbock, TX) and a week with my own (Phoenix, AZ) to give them time. I called as he asked when we got to Phoenix.. no answer left message. A day before we were to leave called again.. left message again. I called that night (I believe it was) and left another message saying “Brian I need to know before I leave here if you guys have something for me. If not that’s fine but I don’t want to bring my wife up there if I don’t have a job waiting for me” no return call.
So the day I was to leave I decided that the best course was to leave my wife with her family. At this point I didn’t think I had a job waiting (which I was right about) and I didn’t want to take a chance on not having a place for us to stay. Figured it was easier for me alone and more comfortable for her to be with her family.
Fast forward 6 months or so. Finally I got a job with the “brethren”. My deal was this. You sell and get 2% commission on everything you sell. No base salary just commission. An average insulation job is about 1200 or so for a normal house. Two percent of that is $24 so you can see I had to sell a lot to make a living. For the first 12 months I worked their I had some pay check of a less then $100 with a low of $54. By this time I had my wife there, my daughter, and my new son. I worked 10 – 12 hours a day five days a week. My first years gross was around $12,000.
Pastor Briggs,
$6,000 per week is $312,000 per year; not "close to $100,000" per year.
Quite impressive either way. I am gladdened by this testimony of your past success.
Gregory
Good catch on the math, Gregory.
I just pointed out on Jeff's blog that his frustration with his experiences in ntcc seemed aimed at all the wrong people.
Greg... had to jump in you are absolutely right.. I typed week when I should have typed month There were some that were higher 6,000 was average... that math should fit closer to my yearly for you.
If you feel the need to post I understand, just understand if I need to do what I have to as well.
Bye
Oh, and I think Jeff explination indicates what happened on his blog. He didn't erase the postings so Jeff I appologize.
Goodbye
ntcc did not pursue denis when he allegedly embezzled money because ntcc DOES NOT WANT THE IRS OR ANY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS LOOKING INTO ntcc's CASH-ONLY, NO RECEIPT, MONEY MAKING EMPIRE!
Everyone knows that I often don't agree with Pastor Briggs' way of thinking as I've clearly displayed by debating with him on my blog and this one also.
Having said that, sometimes Pastor Briggs is (for the most part) right concerning his assessment of certain people. Some of what Pastor Briggs writes about (certain people) is credible because I've verified it myself. In all fairness, all I'm saying to my friends is that everything that Pastor Briggs writes about people is not necessarily a lie or even a lie at all.
We all know that I can't stand the NTCC and Pastor Briggs is a part of it. I believe Pastor Briggs thinks like many NTCCers however I don't think that he is totally blind to the NTCCs ways. Just a thought that I figured that I'd share. We all may not be so different from Pastor Briggs as we've often thought. I've learned a lot from Greg's temperance. Don't be too quick to judge a book by it's cover as I've often been guilty of doing.
Jeff
Thank you Jeff.
Jeff Collins said, "I don't believe that Pastor Briggs is totally blind to the NTCCs ways."
Pastor Briggs said, "Thank you Jeff."
Good point Jeff!!!
I agree with you that Pastor Briggs is not totally blind to the NTCCs ways. He is starting to question the "Whys and Wherefores" of organizational direction and leadership, as he said in his article.
Plus he is coming on Greg and Jeff's blog daily, observing, making comments, welcome aboard Pastor Briggs!!!
I'm posting this again while I'm logged in to my account so there is no doubt whether or not someone is just posting using my name. It's me, Jeff Collins. If I've thought Pastor Briggs was wrong about something I've been quick to speak against him. Everyone knows that. Well he is not wrong concerning his assessment of certain people. I do my homework before I make certain determinations. Pastor Briggs has been right a few times when he has been accused of being wrong. Just because he is in the NTCC (and we don't like the NTCC) doesn't automatically make him a false witness. Hey I've written countless posts slamming Pastor Briggs. I figured I could write a few speaking on his behalf.
It takes a lot of nerve for him to come on a few blogs which are clearly dominated by some seriously opinionated exNTCCers who aren't too bad at expressing themselves. I can at least respect the guy for standing up for himself and if someone has been wrong about Pastor Briggs and I know it, I don't have a problem standing up for him either. He and I both know what I'm talking about and it can be left at that.
Just read a few of the threads and it's not to hard to figure out. If names are being left off by all associated parties I figure I'd leave off names as well.
Pastor Briggs: Let me fight this battle. If the battle continues, I'm planning on fighting on your behalf. You (as well as anyone), know how I can get and conversely, I know how you can get. If it's left alone then it's done. If it's not, I plan to interject and all you have to do is sit back and enjoy the show. It could get interesting but hopefully it doesn't.
Jeff
I agree with you, Jeff in principle on much of what you say concerning RB. While I will say that Briggs is a stand-up guy for coming on these X-er blogs and that he is the only minister that I know of that's not scared to use his name and share his true feelings, it is hard for me to forget some of the things that we went through in the ntcc. I'm of the opinion that the best way for people to realize that the ntcc is not right is to make sharp contrasts between their behavior and what I believe a bible believing church should be all about; thus we use this forum to passionately share our opinions.
I'm not going to apologize to R. Briggs for anything I've said but I do realize that I have the tendency to get pretty harsh and the way I come across may not be conducive to accomplishing the goals that we desire to achieve on these blogs. My goal is for people to see that there is Christianity outside of the ntcc and that many of the practices of many of the churches in the ntcc are similar to that of cults.
I also am aggressive in these forums because the ntcc is aggressive in the way the treat people. My wife and I have been through much more than we care to go into on these blogs that is directly attributed to our time in the ntcc and we feel very deeply that attention needs to be drawn to the unchristian examples that some in the ntcc lead. In all fairness to Robert, I have never been around him and therefore I do not know how he runs his church. I sometimes see what appears to be the same attitude of many of the ntcc leadership, and I forget that I once had that same attitude. I do think it is important to draw attention to it, because it's destructive in so many ways and on so many levels.
Three months ago I was living in sin and God saw fit to have mercy on my soul and pull me out of it. It was at this time that I also dared to take a look at the ntcc for what it is and what it was. When I was a member, I never knew about the double standards and refused to take an honest look at what I was a part of. I now see the hypocrisy of the minority that live a certain way but expected us to live differently.
It seems like it's getting closer to the holidays, the seasons are changing and everyone is lightening up a little and trying show kindness, so we also will attempt to do the same. We appreciate everyone that participates in these blogs and hope all have a happy Thanksgiving and a wonderful Christmas.
Don and Ange
Very good comment Don and Ange. I hope we all have a blessed and prosperous holiday and may God continue to have love and mercy for us all!!!!!!! God bless our troops in harms way fighting for our freedom!!!!!!!
Don wrote...
It seems like it's getting closer to the holidays, the seasons are changing and everyone is lightening up a little and trying show kindness, so we also will attempt to do the same. We appreciate everyone that participates in these blogs and hope all have a happy Thanksgiving and a wonderful Christmas.
Jeff said...
Don, make no mistake about it. We and in this case to make it more personal, "I" really appreciate you and your friendship and your genuine comradery on these blogs. Buddy I know where you stand. You don't mix your words and I like someone who shoots straight. No beating around the bush with you and buddy I really respect that. You are also a good writer. These blogs "need" more people like you, who can effectively express themselves while letting folks know what the NTCC is really all about. There is a definite cause here and we are the X-MEN. (And WOMEN). Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
Thanks for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated. It's good to know that we are not alone out here. Hopefully more people will feel comfortable about expressing themselves on these blogs and they will find refuge from the storm. We really appreciate everything you and Greg have done to assist us in getting our blog up and running and for your continual moral support and contributions to our posts and comments.
See you in the trenches my freind!!!
Don and Ange
Matthew 25:41-45
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
"I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Than shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not of the least of these, ye did it not to me."
Brother and Sister Shunk, can you or I please delete my comments on your blog? I apologize, but I would like to delete them. I could not delete them all because I did not use my gmail account when I left the majority of them. I would sincerely appreciate this.
Kristofer
I left a lot of comments on your earlier threads. I don't mean to inconvenience you.
I am wondering if Greg experienced a similiar instance of "Fear and Frustration in Facing Pastor Davis" when he made the decision to go to Idaho and not return to Graham.
--Caesar
Kris,
There are over 800 messages to go through, I am in college, and don't have time for anything extra. You will have to wait until January. My semester ends then, and I am taking a month break. I'll get to it then.
Gregory
Greg, we are glad you don't have time right now to delete Kris's comments.
Kris wrote such good comments with real insight to how ntcc operates based solely on his personal experience and growing knowledge of the bible. It seems counterproductive to remove these true stories.
We wonder if Kris has left the ntcc only physically, but is still held captive by the ntcc spiritually.
ntcc uses fear to control people. ntcc even twists a natural fear or reverence of God into an unnatural fearful spirit that makes people do strange things. People are too afraid of God; we wonder if that is the case here too.
God did instruct not to touch his anointed; yet God also records instances of His anointed being corrected and even rebuked.
The bible admonishes to study the word so we can rightly divide the word of truth.
God never intended our reverence of Him to cause us to hide hypocrisy. Jesus clearly openly rebuked the hypocrites, warning them of impending judgment.
We don't need to fear eXposing ntcc's rampant hypocrisy, and double standards, and blatant sin. We should see it as our duty to sound the trumpet to warn others of the ntcc's false doctrines just as the apostles clearly did in the many books of the new testament. They constantly detailed the differences between real Christianity and hypocrisy. There is no shame in the truth and no need to delete or hide our comments or articles based on real life experiences and knowledge of the truth.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange,
I am not happy I cannot accommodate Kris' request right now. I don't know why he wants his comments removed, and I am not going to ask. He can have good reasons, or no reasons. We are all free now.
I know he has deleted the content of his blog also.
Gregory
Perhaps Kris has been experiencing a portion of "The Fear and Frustration" in Facing God.
It is possible that a significant percentage of the comments made by Kristopher Moore on this blog were not 100% truthful; and It is possible that Kris, reacting to an attack of the conscience, is seeking to amend his prior, less than accurate comments.
In this quest for Truth in all matters Spiritual, we must leave no stone unturned as Witnesses voluntarily take the Stand and present Testimony that will be entered into the High Court's Eternal Record.
Greg has informed us that he has archived all of Pastor Kekel's blog, regardless of the several and frequent instances of "wiping", "purging", "formatting", or whatever term you wish to use.
So also, we must remember that all entries to this blog, comments included, are archived into a secure, un-hackable, database, to be used in future Court Proceedings.
Hey, Just a Theory, for what it's worth.
--Caesar
I totally understand that you are busy, and I appreciate that you will get around to it when you find the time around your busy schedule. I will just send you the exact links to the pages that have my comments so you don't really have to search too much (if and when you do find time).
Here they are. I guess there was really only two pages with my comments on them:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8110900357263230694&postID=8984492783318440319
http://newtestamentchristianchurchdebswtnss.blogspot.com/2010/02/vasectomy-policys-effects.html
Once again, thank you.
Kris
Greg,
Freedom is a wonderful thing. We are free to breathe and free to blog. Free to have opinions and free to withdraw them. Free to differ with others and free to agree. After so many years of being slaves, it is awesome to have this freedom.
Don and Ange
Kris,
Thanks for the links. I just deleted your posts; go back and double check to ensure I got them all; if not let me know.
Consider this...if NTCC really changes, you would not need to delete your previous opposition to them to be welcomed.
Additionally...a real church; a real 'changed' church will not fear the truth; will celebrate the truth.
What you wrote was true, wasn't it?
Gregory
Oh, I almost forgot. Thank you, Greg, for deleting my comments. I will just check like you said to make sure they are gone.
Rev. Shunk,
Sorry to keep bothering you about this, but I counted 16 of my comments on the first link and 20 on the second one. I hope this is not trying on your patience. I would do it myself if I could. I'm so sorry.
Kris
Kris,
I still don't see that I missed any. Did you sign your posts? If not, I cannot find them to delete them.
Gregory
oh, wow! Now when I look they are all gone except for one on the first link. It is signed as 'Kristofer.' Other than that it looks like all of them are gone. Sorry about that. I don't know why I saw them there before. And thank you again for your patience. From now on, I will post with my google account if I post here again, if I am still welcome. This Caesar fellow was talking about me, so I just want to address him, if it's ok.
Sorry, Rev. Shunk, I guess there is only one left on the first link. I tried responding to your message, but I don't know if you received it. There is only one left on the first link I sent you, and it has the name 'Kristofer' attached to it. Sorry for that.
Kris,
No problem, the last one is delted.
Do me one favor though; keep all your latest posts on here so people know why they were deleted by 'the administrator'. I don't want people to think this blog is censored.
Gregory
oh, wow... I didn't think about that. I was planning to remove them... but it will just say that they were removed by the author if I remove them myself. I think I should at least remove some of the entries as they are redundant. I was having trouble sending the comments and I thought one got lost and i re-wrote it twice.
Kris,
You misunderstand, if you remove your latest posts on this thread it will say 'removed by author' but then there will be no record of why all your other ones were removed by 'the administrator'.
So again, please don't remove your latest posts on this thread. I know you can do what you want, and all I can do is ask, but I can also do what I want, and will probably restore all your old posts if you delete your requests for me to delete them.
I don't know what is up, but you are posting the same type of stuff that you just had me delete, and now you are telling me you were going to delete these latest posts also.
Why would you ask if you are welcome here (are you back or not) when you ask me to delete all your old posts, post more of the same type of stuff, and then tell me you were going to delete this new stuff also?
I assumed you were cleaning shop to move on.
I don't know what your game is Kris, but I ain't playin'. Don't waste my time.
Gregory
Actually, Greg, I deleted a bunch of them before you did. They were the ones that were done with my google account. Remember, I was the first one to leave a comment on your blog. That space for the first comment on Deborah's first post on this blog now says, comment deleted. This comment was removed by the author (not administrator).
I will just say, I am trying to not be involved, but I guess it is hard because I believe in the cause (or our cause). I just have personal reasons for wanting to remove the comments. Maybe I should not have asked them to be removed. I don't know. I just want to make sure I am right. That's all. But then I guess I just wanted to respond to Caesar, because I didn't appreciate his comments about me.
Sorry for wasting your time, honestly. I understand your being upset with me. I am truly sorry.
Kris,
That's all well and good. I remember you posted that you deleted posts, but could not delete them all so you involved me.
You are not wasting my time (yet), I just wanted to accommodate you, especially since you made it easy by giving me the links to the pages your posts were on.
I am not upset, I just have a lot less tolerance for inconsistency now that I am post-cult, and asking me to delete your old post, and then posting more of the same on this page, and saying you were going to delete those also, is inconsistent.
Again, I ain't playin'. You delete your requests to me, and all your stuff probably goes back up.
Gregory
Ok... Now I understand... I totally understand what you are saying... You want me to keep the request to delete my comments. No problem whatsoever. I hope you will forgive me.
Deb or Greg,
Love the new thread titles and "Friends and Family" and "Truth Seeker Counter" and "Search This Blog For Light" and other changes to the blog :-) Nice work!
Ds or Gs said,
"He can have good reasons, or no reasons. We are all free now."
Don and Ange said,
Freedom is a wonderful thing and we hope that Kris is able to obtain it as we have. The price for our freedom was not free and has left many scars and bad memories but in spite of all the bad, there is definitely freedom outside of the ntcc.
Kris, if you read this, as we have posted, we think that you wrote some very good and insightful comments that made very good points. Our intentions are not to belittle you in anyway as the ntcc would do. We do however, realize that the enemy is real and it is always difficult to overcome the years of abuse we took as members of the ntcc. I truly believe that the ntcc is an evil and wicked organization that created a hateful environment towards all that were not in submission to them. These are harsh words that are directed toward the very few elite members in leadership positions that have shaped the organization into a cult.
We were all at one time saved in this cult because they preached the Word of God to us. However, its what they did afterward in word and deed according to the doctrines and policies dictated by the leadership that were not God's word and were not out of love or spiritual admonishment that made us cult members to mimic and duplicate the actions that were taught to us.
You said you had your reasons for deleting what you commented and we respect that as your right. People should be free to do what they will on these blogs whether it's considered good or bad, we are free and everyone is afforded the opportunity to present their opinions. Our point is that you were right and should not be ashamed of it or feel bad in anyway for telling the truth. The ntcc doesn't want us to have this freedom and we are tired of their minions, like ceasar salad, dictating to us what is right and wrong.
We left them and they are no longer Captain of this ship. They can rant and rave all they want, but we are free from the cult called ntcc and are not ashamed to proclaim our liberty to all that will hear. If there was no truth to what we say, they would not try to dispute it or to justify their actions.
What we state here on this blog is our educated opinions based on what we consider to be the truth, much of which is backed up by scripture. We welcome all to comment and disagree or agree. We believe that what we write is the truth and we will not be removing anything from our blog.
We truly and sincerely wish you the best and hope you will find peace and freedom from the ntcc. What has helped us to achieve this is to totally reject ntcc as an organization and accept God's love and forgiveness in our lives. We do not however reject the people, most of which blindly follow the teachings of ntcc. We separate the good experiences from the bad. We separate the biblical teachings of the ntcc from the man-made policies of the ntcc and live for God.
Don and Ange
I have heard in NTCC the gospel message alot with some other stuff mixed in there as well. They preach of course that there is no thing as a perfect church and NTCC is as good as it is going to get. Different members have told me that when you here something that is crazy you just have to blow it off, and ignore it. I have done that to much. At NTCC We are fed the word so much that our bellies our full, but the meal was sprinkled with poison.
D.D., P.H.D. in what? From where? That's a rare photograph, I actually thought that there were none in existence.
Looks like davis has a case of the "mulligrubs" in that photo of him in your sidebar... It is also a very typical position for him to be in... seen that pose often.
Love this photo of Mom and Pop Gaylord! They would probably be appalled if they could see the ntcc today!
Don and Ange,
Mom & Pop were appalled years before they died. Appalled at the 'machine' Pastor Davis was turning the Servicemen's works into.
Gregory
sometimes you think you have no tears left for the life that we lived while in the cult.
But then Gregs description of Mom and Pop gaylord. tear up on that. They were GENUINE! Did it ALL for the love of lost souls. Not for what they could get out of it. Not for money,postion,lording it over anyone.
Many of us have FOND memories of those two. Being around them. You knew you were loved and it did not feel fake. Or question anything about them.
My fond memory of them was in a servicemen home's.They came for a visit.
April,
I remember Mom Gaylord disagreeing with verna / vicky / victoria / davis (still vd, if you know what I mean).
Mom was telling vicki to quit worrying; the brothers would let her know if they wanted more (snacks during fellowship).
verna adamantly shook her wig bedecked head, no, no, no. "No they won't."
Brother Barden came thru the door and politely asked for a second helping, thus ending the debate:
Mom Gaylord: 1
vd: zip, zero, nada, 0, goose egg...
I was never more proud of my husband asking for second helpings than at that moment in the kitchen of the Lodge.
I watched amazed as Mom Gaylord fearlessly held her ground in trying to get v(erna) d(avis) to do the most basic thing in all Christianity:
REST
BE STILL
KNOW THAT GOD IS GOD
What? A God of second helpings? Perhaps some not on the board in ntcc need to read that we don't have to approach God fearfully like Oliver Twist, "Please, Sir; I'd like some more..."
But maybe the true failure in ntcc stems from this basic failure to REST IN THE LORD.
Their false doctrines and crazy works-based pride saturated religion all stems from a failure to just
LET GOD BE GOD!
Angela
No.
Gregory
Denis is the one who turned it into a machine. Davis didn't care cause Denis brought in the money. Mom & Pop were disgusted & complained to Davis.
No & the Cult made the decision to send me to Idaho. My minister license for 2008 said I was assigned to Idaho.
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