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| New Jesus is winning |
What happened to who/what NTCC was founded upon over 40 years ago?
The $52,000 comes from church tithe, Pastor's tithe, pledges, and tithe from the Pastor's secular income. Pretty sweet deal for Graham HQ. What return value does this garner you? What do they do to "earn" all the money you send them? You pay for everything you "receive" from the leadership, print shop, and Conferences...above the cash you send to HQ each month. The cheapest thing was Fellowship Meetings, but they cancelled these. Most all of the useful content in the Trumpet can be found online, and was written by a non-NTCC'r. Why do you need the Print Shop to Google spiritual things for you? You pay to go to Conferences, and for one of the austere rooms, and for the junk-food churned out by the Fellowship Hall's kitchen. It cost you to host a leadership visit. If not paying to get them there, you pay to support them while they "visit." You pay to prepare the work for their "visit." You pay through your lost productivity engendered by their "visit." You pay through any "offering(s)" you give them that "God" lays upon your heart...you pay, and pay, and pay. All the money you send to Graham and you pay for a Minister's License? They won't even give you free coffee at the Fellowship Hall? Secular hotels and businesses will do this (all you care to drink).
If you want to be worldly and compromise, why should you pay someone or something else for the privilege to do it? Compromise is free, discounting the spiritual capitol you loose to do it. Are you more spiritual than you were just a few years ago? How about 10 or 20 years ago? You could just walk away. By doing so you can preserve your spirituality, and keep your money. Win, win.
Continuing...The
things that shouldn’t have ever changed are the only things that do. Outward
holiness is being phased out. Hollywood and the world are now part of your
life. The internet is replacing King Jesus. Hypocrisy is being modeled, accepted, and
celebrated. Having children is now okay. Shorts and Sports are what all the cool kids/adults do now. Your breaks from having your mind focused on Christ (and the Ministry) are
becoming more frequent, just so you can be more like Graham. Social Media (Twitter, MySpace, FaceBook, SparkPeople, et cetera) has replaced facetime with the leadership (it's less bothersome to them as they chase after their serial secular goals, hobbies, et cetera).
TV, movies, and worldly music are all okay now. Giving away church land as a gift is now okay.
It's even okay to retire from the Ministry now, since God has changed his mind, and allowed Senior Pastor Davis to do so. Secular education is okay, hobbies are okay, secular employment is okay, women working is okay. Mainstreaming your children and family is also acceptable now. Family vacations are now alright. Conferences are take 'em or leave 'em now. Homeschooling is now okay. If you had only known all this decades ago. But, who knew that the unchanging God would change his mind about all this; about so many things?
But, all these fresh revelations come too late for you and your family.
Yet you can still walk away. It's not too late to just walk away. I started over at 47 years old, and things turned around for the good quickly. We went from having nothing to having it all in a few short years.
Yes, the plan to have NTCC be more palatable to the public may be sort-of working (no surge in attendance though), but at what cost? Is it more palatable to you? The hypocrisy of all the cosmetic change doesn't alarm you? Not even a little bit? Why has the unchanging God changed his mind? New-God or Old-God...which was the real God? Or has NTCC's God and version of Christianity never been the right one? These are the only 3 choices.
I
saw this picture on the internet, and immediately thought of all the cosmetic changes
going on in the Cult.
But,
what kind of changes? Anything substantive? Any useful? You still have church activities 5 or more times a week. You still have hours of
soul-winning each Saturday (your only real almost-day-off). You still have to
move every few years. Bi-annual Conference is still a financial hardship (if you even bother to go anymore). Your
children are still deprived (if you have any). You still live pay-check to pay-check. You still send money to HQ Graham so they can stay solvent (it is estimated they receive $52,000 per month from all the non-Graham churches); while you sacrifice and do without. You and your children still aren't going to College. The joy of Fellowship Meeting has been cancelled. You still...blah, blah, blah...et cetera. Oh, and you're still winning.
The $52,000 comes from church tithe, Pastor's tithe, pledges, and tithe from the Pastor's secular income. Pretty sweet deal for Graham HQ. What return value does this garner you? What do they do to "earn" all the money you send them? You pay for everything you "receive" from the leadership, print shop, and Conferences...above the cash you send to HQ each month. The cheapest thing was Fellowship Meetings, but they cancelled these. Most all of the useful content in the Trumpet can be found online, and was written by a non-NTCC'r. Why do you need the Print Shop to Google spiritual things for you? You pay to go to Conferences, and for one of the austere rooms, and for the junk-food churned out by the Fellowship Hall's kitchen. It cost you to host a leadership visit. If not paying to get them there, you pay to support them while they "visit." You pay to prepare the work for their "visit." You pay through your lost productivity engendered by their "visit." You pay through any "offering(s)" you give them that "God" lays upon your heart...you pay, and pay, and pay. All the money you send to Graham and you pay for a Minister's License? They won't even give you free coffee at the Fellowship Hall? Secular hotels and businesses will do this (all you care to drink).
If you want to be worldly and compromise, why should you pay someone or something else for the privilege to do it? Compromise is free, discounting the spiritual capitol you loose to do it. Are you more spiritual than you were just a few years ago? How about 10 or 20 years ago? You could just walk away. By doing so you can preserve your spirituality, and keep your money. Win, win.
 |
|
Some things should never
change. If He was good
enough for the 1960’s,
He should be good
enough for today.
|
TV, movies, and worldly music are all okay now. Giving away church land as a gift is now okay.
It's even okay to retire from the Ministry now, since God has changed his mind, and allowed Senior Pastor Davis to do so. Secular education is okay, hobbies are okay, secular employment is okay, women working is okay. Mainstreaming your children and family is also acceptable now. Family vacations are now alright. Conferences are take 'em or leave 'em now. Homeschooling is now okay. If you had only known all this decades ago. But, who knew that the unchanging God would change his mind about all this; about so many things?
But, all these fresh revelations come too late for you and your family.
Yet you can still walk away. It's not too late to just walk away. I started over at 47 years old, and things turned around for the good quickly. We went from having nothing to having it all in a few short years.
Yes, the plan to have NTCC be more palatable to the public may be sort-of working (no surge in attendance though), but at what cost? Is it more palatable to you? The hypocrisy of all the cosmetic change doesn't alarm you? Not even a little bit? Why has the unchanging God changed his mind? New-God or Old-God...which was the real God? Or has NTCC's God and version of Christianity never been the right one? These are the only 3 choices.
The
new improved Jesus for the new improved Cult. This last-Supper picture is what the Cult now
looks like to those of us that were involved before the creeping compromise
started seeping throughout NTCC (from the inside-out, and top down, no less). To those that are still in, the change may be
gradual enough to not cause much alarm (creeping compromise). For those that
left within a few years of 2005 (and before), this is very noticeable. The
picture says it all.
New
folks don’t know what Holy Ghost authored policy NTCC was really founded on (or how effective it
was in generating gradual growth); until they read FactNet, ntccXposed, Wikipedia, Bruce's Articles, and the Blogs. All they know is New NTCC.
Don't
change, don't repent; just exert more control (the latest control being, no more fellowship meetings). Just relax policy that kept the flesh in subjection. Or, if something isn't working,
keep doing more of the same.
NTCC is changing, just not in the way the leadership desperately needs you to believe.
What about Pastor Davis' "Mega-Church" craze that kicked off in 2001? We had a Ministers Seminar during 9/11 week to teach us all how to build the "Mega-Church" of Pastor Davis dreams. They had hand-outs and everything. Do you remember the stick-figure hand-out that showed us how? Do you still have yours? I have mine.
The most alarming/ironic thing about all of the above is all the compromise originated in Graham, with no groundswell of pressure or support from those Ministering in the field. Most of the compromise came from just one family (a husband, a wife, and one son). A whole organization and way of life changed to accommodate the short-comings of just one family. Instead of changing this family, getting them in subjection, and having them live under the same Holy Ghost authored policy like the rest of us gladly did, NTCC was/is changed.
One family's fleshly desires are negatively effecting the lives and spirituality of thousands of dedicated people, and hundreds of dedicated families. This has finally filtering down to the Church members. One example of this is church members are now allowed to own and watch TV, and Ministers are now allowed to own TV's and watch DVD's.
We all know leaders are supposed to lead from the front; both by what they are willing to do, and are seen doing. I guess now (who knew) leaders are instead supposed to justify the wrong they do, and force others to accept their short-comings, and even follow their wrong example so this family can once again be in the majority. Again, who knew. But, this is understandable, since hardness of heart needs company to feel comfortable.
What about Pastor Davis' "Mega-Church" craze that kicked off in 2001? We had a Ministers Seminar during 9/11 week to teach us all how to build the "Mega-Church" of Pastor Davis dreams. They had hand-outs and everything. Do you remember the stick-figure hand-out that showed us how? Do you still have yours? I have mine.
The most alarming/ironic thing about all of the above is all the compromise originated in Graham, with no groundswell of pressure or support from those Ministering in the field. Most of the compromise came from just one family (a husband, a wife, and one son). A whole organization and way of life changed to accommodate the short-comings of just one family. Instead of changing this family, getting them in subjection, and having them live under the same Holy Ghost authored policy like the rest of us gladly did, NTCC was/is changed.
One family's fleshly desires are negatively effecting the lives and spirituality of thousands of dedicated people, and hundreds of dedicated families. This has finally filtering down to the Church members. One example of this is church members are now allowed to own and watch TV, and Ministers are now allowed to own TV's and watch DVD's.
We all know leaders are supposed to lead from the front; both by what they are willing to do, and are seen doing. I guess now (who knew) leaders are instead supposed to justify the wrong they do, and force others to accept their short-comings, and even follow their wrong example so this family can once again be in the majority. Again, who knew. But, this is understandable, since hardness of heart needs company to feel comfortable.
After
Senior Pastor Davis dies, all will be forgotten (though this has already started)--with no acknowledgment of what
NTCC really was/is--as if he never existed in his true form. He will be blamed for everything. He will be remembered as this eccentric man (who could only take NTCC so far)--whose death people were waiting for; so those that remained could make NTCC into what every other compromising Church is.
History is being rewritten, but I am glad the compromisers didn't wait until Senior Pastor Davis was dead, so all could compare the old with the new, and see if all interested parties (while still alive) would admit to the changes, or hold themselves accountable for straying, or admit to the wrongness of the Cult, or change things back to the way they were a few short years ago (the only choices here).
Regardless, the unvarnished truth will always exist in the experiences of those he hurt...those inside, and outside of NTCC.
History is being rewritten, but I am glad the compromisers didn't wait until Senior Pastor Davis was dead, so all could compare the old with the new, and see if all interested parties (while still alive) would admit to the changes, or hold themselves accountable for straying, or admit to the wrongness of the Cult, or change things back to the way they were a few short years ago (the only choices here).
Regardless, the unvarnished truth will always exist in the experiences of those he hurt...those inside, and outside of NTCC.
 |
| "What's happening to my Church?" |
• "All I do is by the Holy Ghost." (Yet, the Holy Ghost has changed His mind?)
• "I have never missed God." (Yet, God has changed His mind?)
• "All that matters is money and numbers." (Still true today.)
• "...just ask me and I'll tell ya." (Thus proving any point you make.)
• "If you don't like it, there's the door." (Just like Jesus...also, see first three bullet points.)
• "If you need more money, have more church services" (And you know you need more money.)
• "Don't expect me to get all excited when you come and tell me that your wife's pregnant." (Why, do you know who the real father is?)
• "I've never seen a homosexual or Puerto Rican get saved." (Yet, you've Licensed/Ordained Puerto Rican Ministers and known closeted homosexuals...just ask me and I'll tell ya.)
• "The ministry is a business." (Just like Jesus; I know New Jesus approves.)
• "Don't bring homeless people to church, they don't have any money." (Then maybe NTCC Graham should also have a no frills, all cement church [inside and out]; no pews are even needed. Plus, then it can be hosed down and disinfected after service--if you put drains in the floor.)
• "...if you have a problem with me, you have a problem with God." (Agreed, so why did/does God allow you to [complete sentence with your own question to Senior Pastor Davis/God]...)
• "If you do what I do, you can have what I have." (Having all the material things you have; I am working on it, and am all for it...doing what you did to get them; I'll pass)
• "Buy Savings Bonds..." (The real secret to great wealth.)
• "The hardest thing you will ever do is make it in the rapture of the church." (Harder than pioneering churches in foreign countries, and living in Afghanistan for 2 years.)
• "All Christians pay tithe and give offerings." (You may want to read my below tithe articles.)
• "If you have a problem with one of my pastors, you have a problem with me, and if you have a problem with me, you have a problem with God." (No matter what one of "your" Pastors does?...Wow. Sorry old-Jesus, these Ministers are mine now.)
• "I may forgive; but I never forget!" (Just like Jesus...also, see first three bullet points.)
• "Don't ask for my advice unless you intend to follow it." (Okay, I accept your terms...so, here is the advice I ask: How do I reconcile what NTCC was, with what it is now? Especially based on the first 3 bullet points.)
• "The only two organizations I know of besides ours that have church government right are the Catholics and the Mormons." (Catholic and Mormon church government...just as Christ intended)
• "No one has ever left this organization under the direction of the Holy Ghost" (Yet I never left, so why have I been shunned, excluded, slandered, libeled, and vilified.)
• “Et cetera...” (Et cetera...)
The old-timers (this includes Deborah, and maybe me...although, I was only in for 17 years, beginning in 1991) loyalty was to Senior Pastor Davis only. When he is dead it will be interesting to see who stays with it.
Senior Pastor Davis, to answer your question under your picture: What happened is the internet (ARPANET) became operational 7 days before the incorporation/founding of your religion organization (for such a time as this) in 1969, and you opened NTCC Graham up to the public in 1999. Plus, your son-in-law (the clown prince of Graham) is the online apologist (and public face) for NTCC. Just ask me and I'll tell ya.
Oh, and you may be getting too old and demented to care; especially since you already got all you wanted out of your Church business, and the Holy Ghost changed his mind about Ministers retiring, and allowed you to do so.
Gregory
• “Et cetera...” (Et cetera...)
The old-timers (this includes Deborah, and maybe me...although, I was only in for 17 years, beginning in 1991) loyalty was to Senior Pastor Davis only. When he is dead it will be interesting to see who stays with it.
Senior Pastor Davis, to answer your question under your picture: What happened is the internet (ARPANET) became operational 7 days before the incorporation/founding of your religion organization (for such a time as this) in 1969, and you opened NTCC Graham up to the public in 1999. Plus, your son-in-law (the clown prince of Graham) is the online apologist (and public face) for NTCC. Just ask me and I'll tell ya.
Oh, and you may be getting too old and demented to care; especially since you already got all you wanted out of your Church business, and the Holy Ghost changed his mind about Ministers retiring, and allowed you to do so.
Gregory
25 comments:
The sayings of RWD seem to put the new and improved ntcc in somewhat of a quandary. Back in the days of darkness RWD had a pretty good handle on the control of information. He could get away with saying just about anything he wanted to say. If people talked too much, he would create rules to shut them up, or he would use the pulpit to jack them up, put them in their place or just demonize them.
These days, we have irrefutable information and the internet highway to keep a public record of what is going on with the ntcc and it's leaders. The testimony of two or three thousand. It seems like the Kekels and the powers that be in the ntcc have had to throw Davis under the bus in order to continue the delusion. All of the quotes on your list expose the ntcc for being a Cult and they also expose Davis for being a nut case and a whacked out controlling Cult leader.
Now a days, the only strategy that the ntcc can employ to refute the thousands of true testimonies is to discredit the people who have shared their true life experiences and to demonize those of us who are dedicated to making these things public. While many of the kooky rules that Davis put in place are now obsolete and no longer considered to be divinely inspired, they have been replaced by secondary protocol which is to accuse the blogging opposition of being peddlers of ungodly filth. Their new agenda is to keep their brainwashed cult members off of the blogs.
The ntcc is still a cult and the delusion of heavenly favoritism towards their way of life must be maintained. People will never be welcomed to publicly question the statements of RWD or compare the so called "inspired" actions and words of the founder of the feast to the watered down ever changing doctrine and policies that now exist. Kekel is trying to place some distance between the outlandish remarks of his Father in Law for the sole purpose of making the ntcc seem like a normal church with happy people who have been chosen above all others. They have to maintain the delusion that they have a monopoly on Christian perfection.
Great comments DnA,
I have been thinking about what to do with this article, and updated it based on what you wrote.
Thanks,
Gregory
I enjoy reading a post that will make people think.
Thanks for the explanations that you put behind each of the quotes of RWD. It accurately explains much of the psychology in the mind of the narcissistic cult leader and founder of the ntcc.
I often wonder how many of the ntcc faithful will read this stuff and wake up. Our goal has always been to inform folks of the truth with hope that their eyes will be opened and they will find their way out of the cult and in doing so, our wish is that they keep or find real salvation and Christianity.
After corresponding with many X-members I have come to the conclusion that there are many people in the ntcc, that want to be there and they know that they are living in hypocrisy. I believe that these would continue on with the cult even if God spoke to them in an audible voice from heaven and said, "Depart from the ntcc, because they are not Christians, and they do not honor my Son, or the people that He died for."
There are some that we believe to be sincere but they live in fear and they are almost as hard to reach as the ones that have no conscience. We feel compelled to keep blogging and we also hope and pray to chip away at the devil's playground a little bit every day. Cults are not easily brought down and even Warren Jeff's cult stayed together after he was hauled away to prison.
Anyway, we enjoy your blog posts and hope you both have a great Christmas this year.
DnA
Gregory, my dear fellow, is it possible to enjoy the Kool-Aid... and yet still despise the end of the of the road many "old-timers" face?
How many more well meaning young Christians will enjoy the "love*bomb KOOL-AID"; drinking it all in service after service, class after class until the traditions of men are held in higher esteem than the Word of God?
How many more precious souls will become so completely inDAVISinated they would willing commit an obvious sin because the "Man of Gawd" deemed it necessary to administer another one of his frequent "tests of loyalty"???
A group of people were at a ministers home, and we were admiring a finely crafted artifact. In all seriousness the "M.O.G" asked a seasoned and successful minister - if he would steal it for him, if he were to ask him to do so (what kind of question is that???)
I surmised the "MOG" took more pleasure in knowing the power he held over this NTCC minister who have already sacrificed 25-30 years of his life. What a shame.
To sacrifice for God and the work of the Lord is an honorable way of life and one that is sure to be rewarded in the day of judgement.
But it breaks my heart to see so many people being manipulated into devoting there time and money in build another families EMPIRE all the while neglecting their own family.
Brethren, these things ought not to be.
must watch and hear video on youtube titled, "Christ testimony of the churches around the world." there are two identical Jesus Christ revelation 17:8. most of revelation is happening in the spirit world. that's why Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah and Lot. the abomination of desolation is happening in the spirit realm inside all these man made buildings set up for worship. the Christians and catholics, etc are not aware of what's happening to them and around them in these places, (churches -any four wall building representing God to gather believers of Christ). these churches around the world are all connected to "The Great City" Revelation 11, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt and Mystery of iniquity. this email is not a joke. Church leaders around the world are searching of the earthly signs. this will not happen until the very last day and hour. God will not allow man to destroy the earth with nuclear bombs. read matthew 3:12 and Revelation 20:9. God sends his son to the earth with the fire behind him consuming all his enemies which are left from the resurrection of the dead and those that are alive. the body of Christ is gathered as the son of man appears at last sound of shofar, he is coming while the wheat are gathered and the tares are left as the chaff and earth is consumed by the fire of God.
http://www.a-new-hope.org/HOPCC-lies
Anonymous,
I read some of the blog, and found it to be so full of man's ideas. Restrictions and rules, rules, rules. How men love to be lord over others. What a power trip Denis is on and NTCC too. Thank the Lord someone else has been set free and has become another "Witness" to help record the abuses of HOPCC and NTCC. I pray others will read this testimony and God will open their eyes to freedom in Christ! God bless you!!
Deborah Shunk
WOW... ASHMORE HAS LEFT NTCC...
NTCC XER BLOG HAS THE WHOLE STORY...
ASHMORE HAS LEFT NTCC... EARTHQUAKE!!!
WOW
My name is eric roofers and I use to attend Ntcc from 85-98. I've sat in RWD house. My first pastor was DM Espinoza. It's very heartbreaking to hear all this. It doesn't surprise me tho, nothing does.I remember REV ASHMORE, mom and pop Gaylord, REV Blumenthal, you name them and I've met them. Most of the complaints I have heard I agree with. I just never felt good enough while attending but in spite of all that God made himself known. I remember sister espinoza always praying for me and many others as well. So sad that what is being said has a definite ring of truth. REV Espinoza was one of the best pastors I remember. It's good he passed before all this came to light. It's not a sin or betrayal for someone to want to serve God elsewhere. Get God on the inside and he will clean you up. I wouldn't make it in naff today because no man tells me what to do or how to live unless I see him walking it first. That's one thing I got from REV Espinoza was how to read the bible. The Ntcc will give account for their deeds, we all will. We are to serve God without fear and to go and be like Jesus. Be like the Behrens and question everything. Paul never got upset when they questioned him, he encouraged it. Is the Ngoc leadership greater than Paul?
Interesting article and the questions posed by some of the responses.
Ashmore left quickly and took his church with him.
So I guess Denis is on one front and Ashmore on the other. I've also heard from some that some pastors are thinking of going with Ashmore because they can't stand the nepotism within the NTCC.
Grant is the prince of the church yet I don't even know if he attends anymore.
Goes to secular college, played sports.
Total BS if you ask me and proof that the org is a fraud!
Ashmore left and is "Rebranding" a church in San Diego.
HELLO where are you guys?
Dead blog, they've moved on
Wait a second... They can watch TV now? How did that happen?
Cool Deborah. Obviously you are absolutely free to take the high road and I can understand your approach because I understand how your mind is operating. Just remember this: I'm sure you've read the gospels. Of this fact, there is absolutely no doubt. Was Jesus filled with bitterness and anger because he not only allowed but advocated his statements about the Scribes and Pharisees to be chronicled historically forever???
Here are a few of Jesus' statements. You've preached, so now I will.
Mk 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Now Deborah, I suppose Jesus needs to move on with all that rhetoric? Was Jesus, (as you put it) harboring ill feelings toward the Scribes and Pharisees because he has clearly allowed these statements that "HE" made to be read by Christians for the last 2000 YEARS??? And Greg is supposed to take your blog down that's only been up for the last 7 years or so if that??? So Jesus got it all wrong when he decided to warn good folks against dealing with the religious hypocrites of his day who are no different than the NTCCers of our day??? Respectfully, it seems that you've forgotten about the Gospels and Jesus' very statements. So according to your religious beliefs the very God you serve, (specifically Jesus) has it all wrong and he needs to make up with the Scribes and Pharisees and sit down and have dinner with them? I'm not saying all this to be mean spirited, I'm saying these things to try and show a different perspective. Does Jesus also need to erase all his statements in the Gospels that he allowed to be written about the Scribes and Pharisees just like Greg needs to take down your blog?
Jesus called them "FOOLS". Did Jesus get that wrong? Deborah I get why you feel the way you do but in this case you are allowing some degree of self righteousness to cloud your judgment. You don't have to speak out against the NTCC just like everyone in Jesus' day didn't speak out about the Scribes and Pharisees but that didn't make Jesus wrong for doing it and it doesn't make Greg or myself wrong for speaking out against the SORRY GREEDY Chauvinistic False Prophets who use abuse and take advantage of NTCCers just like you previously admitted that they did to YOU! You can't take your statements away and you shouldn't feel guilty for making them as long as they were the truth which I know they were and you've admitted as such.
Chief
Deborah wrote...
Before God, I cannot say I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART and yet harbor ill feelings towards people who have hurt many; causing many to lose faith in the Church (generally speaking).
Chief wrote...
Deborah, what you are considering to be "ill feelings" are no more than a conscious understanding of just how messed up the NTCC is, was and always will be; (at least as long as the Kekels and Olsons are in charge. How is that "ill feelings"? Would you do harm to them? Physical or psychological harm? I know the answer because I know you wouldn't. Again, Jesus obviously couldn't stand the Scribes and Pharisees. That fact can't be debated. Jesus had it written forever. Jesus couldn't stand religious folks of his day and he said it. He warned people to beware of them. So what is wrong with me warning people to beware of the NTCC Church and leadership? Have they not completely ruined lives? Of course they have and you know it as well as anyone. They have ruined childhoods. They have harbored known child molesters. They allowed Grant to live a life that they slammed others for even considering for their children.
I understand you not wanting anything to do with this blogging. Trust me, I get it. That however doesn't make it wrong or make Jesus wrong for warning people of the dangers surrounding the religious people of his day. You may say, "yeah but Jesus didn't do it for 10 years straight". I say true enough but if I did it for the next 100 years, that wouldn't even compare no where near to the volume of people who have read the Gospels and continue to. One chapter in the Gospels about the Scribes and Pharisees has been read by more people than will ever read my blog or this one, so Jesus statements are in fact going ON AND ON AND ON everyday for eternity and he knew that when he saw fit to have them written and they reoccurred in more than one Gospel.
I hardly blog anymore. I simply have little interest in it because I know for a fact that people will jump out of the NTCC and right back into another cult. Jumping from the pot and into the kettle. The NTCC is just a small piece of a huge pie. Are there churches that do good? Yes, I'm sure there are but in this day and age, the majority of churches and church leaders are no more than greedy hucksters perpetuating a fraud. True religion is helping the fatherless and widow, not getting your bills paid and getting rich off a bunch of suckers. And church ain't about controlling peoples lives and every movements either. Know the truth and the truth shall set you free, not put you in bondage to the law like the NTCC did to us for decades.
I hope you also disassociate yourself with J.R. Ashmore and his blog. He said a lot of really bad things about the ntcc and it's leadership, also. It would be hypocritical to remain best buddies with the Ashmores. They are not a victim anymore than Kekel and Olson are victims.
I've been reading all the anti-NTCC posts for the past couple of days and I must say...Wow!
I went to the Graham church starting in 2006. I came from a different church unassociated with NTCC. The first thing that I found odd was that everyone in unison raised their hands in worship, pre-service. It looked and felt cultish. But I was young and just moved out to Washington to live with my brother who was/is a minister in the org.
Now, I have no serious grievances with the org and have no knowledge of the sexual abuse, adultery, greed or whatnot (sorry). But, looking back, I can see the cult-like behavior. Belittling people both privately and over the pulpit. I remember always feeling like I wasn't good enough. Like a perpetual state of despair. I have never felt the presence of God in any service there, ever. But one time, at a conference in Missouri, I approached RWD and asked him to go out to eat somewhere. He locked his arm in mine and began walking with me and said something like "I don't know where she(his wife) wants to eat, so I don't want to commit to anything". That was it. But in those short few seconds there was a supernatural love that washed over me. I can't explain it, I don't know why it happened but it really did.
I'm not posting this in offense or defense of anyone or NTCC. Just my experiences while I was there. RWD may very well have been all that I've read about on these blogs. Idk. But I do know what happened in those few seconds of a walk with him.
Thanks for your comments Anonymous. Once a person is there for a while (some longer some shorter) they will find themselves doing things just because everyone else is, or because they perceive it is what's expected, or even because someone "suggested" they start dong something/comply.
Regarding supernatural love...physical contact, music, preaching, being a part of something can generate a feeling most people associate with the presence of "God." Even the physical manifestation of chicken skin/goose bumps is often associated with a moving of the Holy Spirit. Wikipedia et al state, "Goose bumps are the bumps on a person's skin at the base of body hairs which may involuntarily develop when a person is tickled, cold or experiencing strong emotions such as fear, euphoria or sexual arousal."
This is why this phenomenon occurs when your favorite team makes as touch down, as well as during a church conference. Yet most people will associate chicken skin/chills with a "move of God" just because is happens in a church or around church folks or listening to a "Mississippi Mass Choir/Brooklyn Tabernacle" CD.
Vic Commented with this/attributed it to a cause, other than deity, in a comment on Jeff's Blog years ago.
As far as RWD goes, I always liked him, and liked being around him, and usually got a warm fuzzy from close proximity. But I get this from people anyway, then and now.
How long did you attend the church?
Who?
Who?
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