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| Heaven bound! |
Hello to both of our readers,
QUESTION: Where does the infidel go?
Gregory (the Foolish and Unlearned) & Deborah
ADDED 9/24/2012: For clarity's sake (many people are having a hard time with the above question) I need to change the question to...
QUESTION: According to the Bible, where does the soul of the infidel immediately go at the death of the body?
or...
QUESTION: Does the infidel soul go to Heaven or to Hell when the body dies?
To answer any of these questions (including my original one) does not require a personal judgment by a person about a specific person (especially since they are generic/general questions), but does require the most basic knowledge of the Bible, and a willingness to acknowledge it.
Senior Pastor Kekel (Dean of the Bible College, and one of the Professors) wrote on his Blog about these types of questions/concerns..."No NTCC answer was given to such a foolish and unlearned question."
We have to assume for the sake of fairness that Senior Pastor Kekel (Dean and Professor at NTCC's Bible College) holds this relevant, informed, and of-great-value view because he has labored and struggled in the work of the Lord in Graham for the past 28 years.
In spite of all the obstacles and hardships Graham presented/presents to Senior Pastor Kekel and his family, he was able to quickly (2 years after marrying Tanya) put his finances in order, and assure his family's well being and future. Good for him...God always rewards sacrifice.
On a personal note, and for information purposes only...I never asked Senior Pastor Kekel my foolish and unlearned questions (just Rev. Olson, and Senior Pastor Davis), so I am not sure why he even commented on my foolish and unlearned questions. The only church business dealings I ever had with him in my 11 years as a Pastor in the field was when I ordered things from the print shop (1 custom item, 1 time). Mostly, I worked with Rev. Butler, and Rev. Fontenot for print shop orders.
Senior Pastor Kekel also wrote on his CEO Blog..."What God wanted later became clear, and knowing I would never enter Servicemen's work but was called to administrative work [like Rev. Olson, and Rev. DiFrancisco] moved forward [with having a child] after being married 8 years."
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote in a very recent pre-2012-fall-conference email to Bro. Edward Bellamy that..."We waited until we were married 8 years, and my ministry was established before making that CHOICE. God called me to Administrative work, it was not my choice, and only he that doeth the will of God will abide forever."
Senior Pastor Kekel's self-proclaimed sole Spiritual Gift (Administration) is found in 1 Corinthians 12:28 of the King James Bible.
QUESTION: So why has Senior Pastor Kekel ever "Pastored" in Graham WA, or taught at the Bible Institute/College/Seminary? Why hasn't his "God appointed me" place been beside Rev. Olson and Rev. DiFrancesco only?
But, let's get back to my original question(s). According to the Bible, where does the infidel go?
What about someone whom the Bible classifies as being worse than an infidel (1 Timothy 5:8)? Where does this person go?
Infidel: apistos {ap'-is-tos} from 1 (as a negative particle) and 4103; TDNT - 6:174,849;
adj AV - that believe not 6, unbelieving 5, faithless 4, unbeliever 4, infidel
2, thing incredible 1, which believe not 1; 23 1) unfaithful, faithless, (not
to be trusted, perfidious) 2) incredible 2a) of things 3) unbelieving,
incredulous 3a) without trust (in God).
faithless
Senior Pastor Kekel (Dean of the Bible College, and one of the Professors) wrote on his Blog about these types of questions/concerns..."No NTCC answer was given to such a foolish and unlearned question."
We have to assume for the sake of fairness that Senior Pastor Kekel (Dean and Professor at NTCC's Bible College) holds this relevant, informed, and of-great-value view because he has labored and struggled in the work of the Lord in Graham for the past 28 years.
In spite of all the obstacles and hardships Graham presented/presents to Senior Pastor Kekel and his family, he was able to quickly (2 years after marrying Tanya) put his finances in order, and assure his family's well being and future. Good for him...God always rewards sacrifice.
On a personal note, and for information purposes only...I never asked Senior Pastor Kekel my foolish and unlearned questions (just Rev. Olson, and Senior Pastor Davis), so I am not sure why he even commented on my foolish and unlearned questions. The only church business dealings I ever had with him in my 11 years as a Pastor in the field was when I ordered things from the print shop (1 custom item, 1 time). Mostly, I worked with Rev. Butler, and Rev. Fontenot for print shop orders.
Senior Pastor Kekel also wrote on his CEO Blog..."What God wanted later became clear, and knowing I would never enter Servicemen's work but was called to administrative work [like Rev. Olson, and Rev. DiFrancisco] moved forward [with having a child] after being married 8 years."
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote in a very recent pre-2012-fall-conference email to Bro. Edward Bellamy that..."We waited until we were married 8 years, and my ministry was established before making that CHOICE. God called me to Administrative work, it was not my choice, and only he that doeth the will of God will abide forever."
Senior Pastor Kekel's self-proclaimed sole Spiritual Gift (Administration) is found in 1 Corinthians 12:28 of the King James Bible.
QUESTION: So why has Senior Pastor Kekel ever "Pastored" in Graham WA, or taught at the Bible Institute/College/Seminary? Why hasn't his "God appointed me" place been beside Rev. Olson and Rev. DiFrancesco only?
But, let's get back to my original question(s). According to the Bible, where does the infidel go?
What about someone whom the Bible classifies as being worse than an infidel (1 Timothy 5:8)? Where does this person go?
Still not sure? Still not willing to entertain the obvious? This may further clarify:
The word "provide" in 1 Timothy 5:8 means (in the Greek)...(1)
to perceive before, foresee (2) to provide, think of beforehand (2a) to provide
for one (2b) to take thought for, care for a thing.
faithless
Incredible
infidel
not
unbelievers
unbelieving
Thanks for reading, and work on
becoming more curious. Don’t shy away from the uncomfortable/unpopular
question...you will learn more this way. Be intellectually consistent in your
understanding. If the Bible means what it says in some places, it means what it ways in all places.
Just because you have a personal interest in someone being in heaven, and are there when they are preached into heaven, doesn't mean that is where they are. The Bible is the only authority on this.
Just because you have a personal interest in someone being in heaven, and are there when they are preached into heaven, doesn't mean that is where they are. The Bible is the only authority on this.
Gregory
25 comments:
We've discussed this often Baby!
Deborah
Yeah Baby,
Most of us will remember Senior Pastor Davis teaching...(paraphrasing) that he has made provisions for his family for after he died, because he didn't want to be worse than an infidel.
This verse is also something I asked Rev. Olson about, which Senior Pastor Kekel classified as an unlearned question, and for which we never received an answer.
Things are much better now, as I no longer have this concern, since care for my family's future is now assured (and has been for many years now).
Gregory
where does an infidel go?
hmm.. is this a trick question?
greetings from DD
What's up DD.
Not at all, as I wrote above this "was" a concern of ours when we were still in the Cult. It's not a legitimate question? Pastor Kekel says it's foolish and unlearned, almost like 1 Timothy 5:8 isn't in his Bible.
So where does the infidel go?
Gregory
Infidel is also translated unbelieving.
Granted DnA...But were does the infidel go?
Gregory
This seems so obvious. But we all routinely ignored such while in the Borg.... So to answer the question:
Strongs translates the same word in 1 Tim 5:8 and Rev 21:8 as infidel and unbelieving; so they have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Doubtless all (meaning especially) ntcc-ers are familiar with Rev 21:8; as it is one of their pet Scriptures.
The definition of infidel is someone who is not a believer, and in this case in Jesus Christ. So if you are worse than someone who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, I would find it highly improbable that you would make it to heaven, at least based upon the Bible that I've read. It is far more important to take care of your family than it is to give your money to the NTCC and not take care of your family in the process.
If I didn't personally know the people on the right-hand side of the page who said these things, I would think the quotes had been fabricated. These words from the leaders of this church provide an amazing view into how their minds really work. It would all be quite comical if this was only a joke, but I heard many of these in times past and their words are quite revealing.
DSR
I agree DSR. If I hadn't heard these quotes right from the horses mouth myself, there is no way I would believe it either.
Gregory
The use of the term "...highly improbable..." indicates the Bible does not really mean what it clearly states.
Gregory
Agreed about Rev 21:8, but my question has to do with the first death and the first judgment. In other words, where does the infidel immediately go as soon as they die? Sorry I wasn't more clear
Gregory
I can't say where an infidel goes but I certainly wouldn't want God to call me an infidel because I didn't take care of my family.
I also personally heard Davis make many of those statements. I've heard a few of the ones from Olson also. For the most part, the only statements I've heard from Kekel were the ones he made to me when we talked on the phone and those were enough. He talked pretty bad about his fellow NTCC ministers. He referred to them as knot heads if I recall correctly. He clearly saw himself as superior to his fellow minister for the most part.
I understand what you are saying Greg but since I left the NTCC, I got out of the business of sending people to hell. My sincere attitude is that I'll let God figure that one out. This I do know, I wouldn't want to be around Kekel or Davis if they wound up in heaven having not changed the way they act. I can't stand either one of them and with me, Olson is in the same boat.
Chief,
Senior Pastor Kekel's quotes have all come from what he has written online.
Gregory
No doubt. The difference is, I actually heard Davis make the comments and I don't read much of Mike Kekel's commentary. "Ain't Misbehaving" I did read and it really stood out with me which is why I've quoted it so much. Like I said though, Kekel talked really bad about his fellow ministers. He definitely saw them as being beneath him. You'd have to be out of your mind to really consider Mike Kekel a friend.
LOL! Okay, somebody's watching too much daytime T.V. BUT, while we're discussing DNA tests, perhaps Maury or Jerry or whoever and their crews could do a show from Graham and help all those cross-marriers and in-breeders sort out who is their own Grandpa!
Where does the infidel go?
Do you have an answer? I have already asked this question?
Gregory
Good Morning Greg and Deb,
This is a test from the main frame in our bunker somewhere in the northern hemisphere. Actually, we just wanted to say Good Morning and participate in a blog that has yet to be labeled as a hate blog, (publicly), well at least to our knowledge. We have been leaving quite a few "negative" comments on Chief's "hate blog" which have been construed as "ungodly filth" by the self proclaimed and anointed and called to be an administrator, 3 job 24/7, Royal highness of the ntcc, senior prognosticator or procrastinator (it took him a year to write back to Bro. Bellamy), M.C. Kekel. I would like to have been a fly on the wall when God spoke to Kekel about becoming an administrator. We thought we'd leave a more positive comment on your blog even though you are on the ntcc black list for showing concern about your future. I'm at a loss. Can't seem to find much to say that is positive. Oh yeah, "We are winning!" It's great to be free from what is going on in the ntcc right now. The more we hear, the more grateful we are to have escaped. Take care.
This comment was written and saved three days ago due to technical difficulties.
Don
Chief,
Understood, but I think I need to change the question to something like..."According to the Bible, where does the soul of the infidel immediately go at the death of the body?" or...
"Does the infidel soul go to Heaven or to Hell when the body dies?"
To answer any of these questions (including my original one) does not require a personal judgment by a person about a specific person, but they do require the most basic knowledge of the Bible, and a willingness to acknowledge it.
I didn’t expect to get a lot of answers to this topic, but it is disingenuous that the Cult won’t answer--since they teach in Bible College (and at Conference) that when you preach a funeral you don’t preach the person into heaven, and everything I have read that was posted about Pastor Briggs did just that.
Gregory
Good Morning Don,
How can you help posting negative comments about the Cult. We can only tell it like it is. If the Cult wasn’t evil, we would all still be there. If the Cult wasn’t evil we would not have all these testimonies to share.
Thanks for all you both do,
Gregory
You guys did a great job spending your time to create this article! If I had to explain my emotions about your website in only one word ? it would be WOW! Thank you!
Greeting to both my readers,
"According to the Bible, where does the soul of the infidel immediately go at the death of the body?" or...
"Does the infidel soul go to Heaven or to Hell when the body dies?"
To answer any of these questions (including my original one) does not require a personal judgment by a person about a specific person, but does require the most basic knowledge of the Bible, and a willingness to acknowledge it.
All have refused to answer this type of question thus far. Much beating around the bush to a straight forward question.
Gregory
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