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| It seems pleasing to God. |
Word: ekgonon
Pronounce: ek'-gon-on
Strong’s Number: G1549
Orig: neuter of a derivative of a compound of 1537 and 1096; a descendant, i.e. (specially) grandchild.
Use: Adjective
They didn’t teach us the above in Bible College regarding 1 Timothy 5:4 (we were taught something else on the evening of 24 April 1996). I studied it out for myself later, as we were all taught (continue study on your own after graduation) in Bible College.
Conclusion based on Strong’s (NTCC’s concordance of choice): The meaning of the Greek word (translated nephew in this version) is descendant/grandchild, and a nephew doesn’t qualify. Deborah and I have no children, and therefore no descendents, and therefore no grandchild/grandchildren.
Many non-KJV Bibles translate ekgonon as grandchild.
What is NTCC going to do about all the ‘widows indeed’ who will need financial aid when the husband of a childless women dies (there will be many, especially since women usually live longer than men, and since NTCC's vasectomy rule was long standing). It seems the plan is to send them home (for any reason whatsoever) to their non-NTCC families, but only after decades of service.
Of course there are 2 types of descendants; ‘lineal’ and ‘collateral’. But, the Strong’s definition excludes ‘collateral descendants’ as the correct understanding.
My prediction (not really a prediction since the answer was posted by Rev. Kekel online): Doing what is legal (at least NTCC's version of legal), not doing what's right. But, there are other verses beside 1 Timothy 5 that relate to the widow indeed's concerns. In other words, NTCC's stated (by Senior Pastor Kekel) plan...following the letter of the law (at least their private interpretation of it), while ignoring the law's spirit. In other words, a fine-tooth-comb examination, looking for any Biblical reason to exclude these deserving women from getting their Biblical due from NTCC; when the appropriate time and circumstances present themselves, all in the name of ‘obedience to God’s word’. This wouldn't be a problem if NTCC did this consistently concerning all of God's word.
So here's how this works...Forsake your non-NTCC family for the ministry, until you are no longer useful to the ministry, then head home to your non-NTCC family (hat in hand) to beg for scraps...At least there is an NTCC plan in place.
NTCC may not be able to determine if a ‘widow indeed’ trusteth in God, but…they could easily make a case that this not-so-hypothetical widow hasn’t continued in supplications and prayers night and day, since most people sleep at night…
And this not-so-hypothetical widow was understandably observed having a good time somewhere, so could therefore be labeled as ‘living in pleasure’. E.g., a meal at Old Country Buffet, shopping at the Goodwill, power-walking (or even roller skating) around the church behind the fence, working in her victory garden, sitting on the front porch enjoying a morning cup of Maxwell House instant coffee, etc.
But, what about the rest of the passage? What about verses 9 and 10?
• Deborah is not yet 60 (my concern was after she turns 60; I like to follow the rules)…
• She is the wife of one man…
• She is well reported of for good works...
• She hasn’t brought up children. Though verse 4 indicates that a widow is a widow indeed if she doesn’t have any children or grandchildren. But, this may be why NTCC says she is not eligible for aid when she turns 60 (plus I am still alive), and a reason for NTCC's past vasectomy 'policy'; a technicality to exclude any NTCC widows from their Biblical due …
• Deborah has lodged strangers…
• She has washed the Saint's feet, just not lately, not since last year. Interesting that NTCC deleted foot-washing from their doctrinal statement soon after its founding (it pay$ to plan ahead). Maybe this is their out, maybe this is why Deborah is ineligible (other than she is not yet 60), maybe this is why they changed their doctrinal statement…
• She has relieved the afflicted…
• She has diligently followed every good work…
I may be unlearned, but I like to think I am not foolish. We can all take comfort in the fact NTCC knows best.
Plus , there is still my very pressing (and ongoing) concern of being worse than an infidel.
It looks like, once again, NTCC may be right; that NTCC's widows indeed are indeed out of luck.
In His Service,
In His Service,
Gregory the unlearned
10 comments:
Gregory, a foolish and unlearned study! ;-)
I wish Gregory would stop obsessing over this (it's starting to make us ntcc hypocrite 'leaders' look bad, what with our mansions, luxury cars, multiple homes, free servants (slaves, really, but you can't call 'em that now with all the 'political correctness) and all the stuff they don't know about.) So what if some old widow ends up on the streets! She should have used her change jar like rw taught 'em! But NO she had to live in rebellion and take their life savings (after ntcc, of course) and run out and spend it all. I don't care how bad she wanted those dentures! SAVE. SAVE. SAVE.
Well, you won't see me losin' any sleep (or pennies) over it. You want to help her? Give her a cardboard box and tell her to GET A JOB! Lazy slacker widows! After all I've done for her. There was that time in '62 where I had to give that fella she married gas money. He shoulda saved while he was down there in the Philippines getting that cut rate rent! He never did do anything for Gawd! So his widow won't be getting any of our, oops, Gawd's money!!
They're just all about the money.
I never did think he was saved.
I'm tired of this ugly purple Cadillac, daddy. Time to get a new one.
Hey Greg,
I really like that you've made this an issue. I remember when Sis Espinosa became a widow, and even though she has children, it made me wonder about how widows are taken care of in NTCC and how they'll be provided for in the future. I wondered if there was a plan.
It seems there isn't one. What is so unreasonable about your request to know how your wife will be cared for in the future? I think that's a necessary consideration for you, as a husband, to have. I wonder how many men in NTCC even think about the distant future.
There is more wasted money sitting up there on that Campus in Graham than you can shake a stick at. Building after building that has been erected, only to be virtually uninhabited. Maybe he'll gut some of them and put in nursing home style apartments. Will they allow outside-the-fence caretakers to come in and tend to the needs of their widows? and widowers?
Davis can look around him and see how many of the few old timers that are left and that will be in need of his Minister's Rest Home in the very near future...and yet, we see no construction going up to provide for them and house them.
They're going to need it too, because they've not been drawing Social Security for decades. There is nothing for them. Nothing for the widows and nothing for the old preachers.
And, many of these older preacher's wives are bereft of their children, as they pushed them away if they did not want to stay in NTCC with them. Or, they never had children because their husbands were part of the Vasectomy Years. Some of these preacher's have married off their young girls to men they didn't want to marry, and I wonder who will come crawling to whom when NTCC turns a cold shoulder.
A change jar full of "fun money" is not going to sustain them in their Golden (but what I fear will Dross) years.
Tracy Ann,
I didn't make an issue of this, Rev. Kekel brought it up (I'm a fan of his Blog), so I figured this one topic (along with infidels, and what God wants us to do) was now open for public discussion.
Gregory
correction: by "issue", I meant...by asking about how your wife would be taken care of in the first place via email.
Along with this, I have to say that I am gravely concerned for the future of anyone who stays in that group into their 80's and beyond. Davis won't be around to worry about it. Honestly, what are they going to do? Have some ninny come along and tell them they should have listened to "pastor" and saved their money. You have to first make money to save money and not just for now, but for later when you cannot work any longer.
Maybe Davis will bequeath money to some of these loyal men and women who have been around forever (though few they are) and forever have nothing to show for it...except maybe...what? a change jar filled to overflowing with "fun money"?? (sorry, but I crack up whenever I say that)
some positive thinking books?
a boatload of typed notes? (Maybe they can make money by turning them over to the government as proof that this group is a Cult)
A few government bonds? (which, who would invest in those at such a low interest rate?)
I hope that by bringing this into the light of day some folks will take serious consideration into what their future holds.
For those of us who asked Pastor Davis (me being one of them), he told us we should spend our savings to go to mandatory conferences if we needed to (and we always needed to).
Gregory
I find it interesting that when the early Church was starting to be established, they also experienced similar growing pains when some within the Church became "concerned" about their widows.
Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a MURMURING of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
It seems this "murmuring" was initiated because the "widows" needs were not being met. It would appear the circumstances induced a reasonable cause for complaint.
But in relation to this subject, in the Old Testament when ever the Children of Israel "murmured" or complained of a physical need, how did God view their complaint?
I'm probably as about as unlearned as anyone else, but aren't there numerous promises given to the New Testament believer that God will supply all of his/her needs?
I don't believe that "widows" are exempted from any fulfillment of those promises as long as they fulfill the condition of faith.
Hmm, I wonder if one does become a widow would she really be left to walk the streets of poverty mumbling incoherently "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread"
hmm, maybe we need to hear the sermon on the mount again..Matt 6:31-32 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Maybe we should be more "concerned" with walking in faith while trusting everything to the Father and Christ.
Jer 49:11 Leave thy fatherless children, I will preserve them alive; and let thy widows trust in me.
Nevertheless I still enjoyed your short teaching titled "NEPHEW or GRANDCHILD.
God help us
M. Riley
Good, valid, and well reasoned points M. Riley.
I am only addressing what Rev. Kekel shared is the official policy regarding widows indeed...which is not good, valid, and well reasoned.
NTCC is the one exempting themselves from responsibility to the Body of Christ, not me.
Whether it be financial responsibility, or responsibility for all their myriad teachings (policy) over the last 4 plus decades, or responsibility for the conduct of their ministers.
NTCC never holds themselves accountable, yet has a problem with others doing it for them.
Gregory
Monitoring and
investigating religious
fraud since 1987
http://www.trinityfi.org/
This GROUP investigates fraud and cooruption in church groups,
and church leaders. Please go there, and TELL THEM
YOUR STORY and experience with NTCC of America INC!!!
Maybe there will be some legal action to make them
open their books, and let the light of day shine upon
them!
Please post this on your main page.
from a 30 yr vet of NTCC
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