 | ||||
| "STAY IN THE HOUSE! BE IN SUBJECTION!" |
“But I am not throwing away my
future,” Faith said. “The-Old-Book said that I should be the keeper at home and
my children need me more than we need the extra income. To have a happy family
is more important than any career.” [FYI ladies...your family is not happy they are poor; it's not spiritual being poor; being poor doesn't show you are putting God first; being poor just shows you are poor...wife: are you happy you're poor, then get a job...your blessing is not just around the corner, or at the next Conference; you will stay poor until YOU do something about it, get a job...the time you spend listening to Rush Limbaugh, books on tape, blogging, surfing the net, taking naps, hanging out at the library, exercising, et cetera each day could be used making money on a job...when you are doing these other things, you are just wasting your free time, so you might as well waste your free time on a job...while your kids are in school, you could be making money...if you don't have kids you have even less excuse not to work...you don't wear makeup, so working is easy; just put your hair in a bun, throw on a skirt, and get to work...if your husband is able to provide you with a house and your own car, if you have money in savings, life and health insurance, nice furniture, money in your purse that is not for bills, can visit family, can feed your family good quality food, et cetera, then you don't need to work; if not you should get a job...if your family doesn't have life and health insurance, they are at risk; get a job...if you're efficient, and the members of your family aren't complete slobs, housework only takes less than 2 hours per day, including meals (maybe your husband and children could help; I always do)...stop being lazy, and a woman of leisure (you can't afford it), and robbing your family of the blessings that only more income can provide; get a job...if you have to ask your husband for money, get a job...don't use God as your excuse to be lazy; take the pressure off of your family; get a job...who is being a better steward of their free time; who is the more virtuous woman; you, or the working woman of Proverbs 31...since you don't rob God, don't rob your family, get a job]
“That foolish church you belong to has
caused you to lose your senses,” Mrs. Career-Woman said angrily. “Anyone knows
that you can hire someone to take care of your children. And look at what you
are missing. I have financial security, freedom and a new car.”
Faith boldly stopped her:
“Yes, and a 15 year old daughter that
has already had one abortion.” [NTCC always uses the most extreme scenarios to make their case; they have to since much of the policy they enforce is not supported by the Bible...also, I wonder if the father was a 25 year old man]
“What does that have to do with my
career? Children do what they want anyway,” she said.
“Letting hirelings raise children is
what caused [so why do you say in the next sentences that there is a chance they will turn out bad if you raise them] your daughter and my oldest son to grow up rebellious. I am going
to stay home and raise the youngest two myself. If they turn out bad [Tanya being an almost stay-at-home Mom didn't help Grant], at least
I can say I did my best and that is more important than a career.” And with
that, they left Mrs. Career-Woman and continued on. — Rev. Jordan, 20th
Century Pilgrims Progress, Chapter 53 (“MRS. CAREER-WOMAN”), Page 83. This book
was promoted and sold at NTCC Conferences in the 1990's.
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote in his 2010 “Shunk” article…”This next paragraph shows that both of them were working at the time, while the church spiraled downward… It was reported later that Debbie was also working, and the email below verifies that in his own words… My take? It's all about the money.” [well no kidding Senior Pastor Kekel, not everyone was born-again with a silver spoon in their mouth...money is a major necessity of life]
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote in his 2010 “Shunk” article…”This next paragraph shows that both of them were working at the time, while the church spiraled downward… It was reported later that Debbie was also working, and the email below verifies that in his own words… My take? It's all about the money.” [well no kidding Senior Pastor Kekel, not everyone was born-again with a silver spoon in their mouth...money is a major necessity of life]
Senior Pastor Kekel wrote in 2011… "One of the biggest
enemies of aging Ministers is their fear that they won’t be taken care of in
their old age. This fear causes them to resort to secular education and
employment, abandoning the call of God; but the key is taking care of their old
age, in their youth. Then, the wives go on jobs too, which is against the
bible, and they find that the same spending habits that got them into the mess,
rob them of happiness, even with a double income."
Double Ugh wrote in 2012…”She [Tanya] said it's okay if I have a job and that there are many women in the NTCC that work.”
Double Ugh wrote in 2012…”She [Tanya] said it's okay if I have a job and that there are many women in the NTCC that work.”
Double
Ugh also wrote in 2012…”She [Tanya] said it [women working] is not preached
against!”
Jeffrey C. Gross, Jr. (on his Bog…"A Little ofEverything,” from his 18 February 2007 article "One Little Greek Word") wrote: There is no Biblical support whatsoever for the doctrine...that women must stay at home or on the farm, and not work outside the so-called "domestic sphere". The virtuous woman, in Proverbs 31, is described as doing eleven things "outside the home". She is involved in agriculture and business, and is even politically active (in Hebrew idiom, the "gates" are a synecdoche [metaphor] for political affairs).
So who is right? Senior Pastor Kekel and Rev. Jordan, or Tanya and Jeffrey C. Gross, Jr.?
Jeffrey C. Gross, Jr. (on his Bog…"A Little ofEverything,” from his 18 February 2007 article "One Little Greek Word") wrote: There is no Biblical support whatsoever for the doctrine...that women must stay at home or on the farm, and not work outside the so-called "domestic sphere". The virtuous woman, in Proverbs 31, is described as doing eleven things "outside the home". She is involved in agriculture and business, and is even politically active (in Hebrew idiom, the "gates" are a synecdoche [metaphor] for political affairs).
So who is right? Senior Pastor Kekel and Rev. Jordan, or Tanya and Jeffrey C. Gross, Jr.?
All
the Pastor wives in Korea have worked secular jobs since at least the early-1990’s;
and this continues to this day. My take? It’s all about the money.
For
example, Sister Stevens has her own photography business in Korea. Here and here
are the links. I don’t know if she is also still teaching her ESL course. My take? It’s all about the money.
She
owns and operates this typical secular photography business. Wholesome family
pictures yes, but also Denim jackets (worn by Lillian), cleavage, tight
clothes, pants on women, suggestive looks and posses, very short skirts, backless tops, strapless tops,
make-up, exposed arms, nail polish, satanic jewelry, dyed hair, tattoos, et cetera. She even has a porn picture on the facebook page. This is “Through Eyes of Grace”
photography; a recent (2011) “outside the house” business endeavor of yet
another Minister’s wife.
Getting
back to Tanya, she is also reported to be complaining that the kitchen and walk
in closet in her second new Mansion is too small. Tanya having a smaller
Mansion kitchen and smaller Mansion walk-in-closet is not surprising, since the
Kekel’s are widely celebrated throughout NTCC for all their sacrifice during
their 28 years of laboring only in Graham. My take? It’s all about the money.
Also,
the brothers that helped with carrying things into Senior Pastor Kekel’s latest
new Mansion were reported to be “overwhelmed that somebody [Tanya] could have so many
shoes and clothes.” Again, not surprising based on all their sacrifice during
their 28 years of laboring only in Graham. My take? It’s all about the money.
I
also sent an email to Senior Pastor Kekel about this. Here is what I wrote:
Greetings
Senior Pastor Kekel,
We
are doing well, and continue to prosper.
Recently,
it has come to my attention that Lillian Stevens has yet another secular job in
Korea. This time it’s her own business, which she started in 2011.
I
know you may not know Lillian has been working in Korea each time they have
been assigned there since the early 1990’s (as all the Pastor wives have),
because you are not involved day-to-day in the operations of any Church outside
of Graham. This may explain why you seemed shocked to find out that Deborah
also worked over there.
I
am notifying you of this because you have delivered correspondence (see
attachment) from me to Senior Pastor Davis in the past, and because you teach on
your Blog against married women working; “…wives go on
jobs too, which is against the bible…” And, you seemed shocked to find
out that Deborah also worked over there by permission of NTCC. So, now you have
proof she was not the only one. But, this is irrelevant since consensus doesn’t
drive doctrine/policy. Although, online events seem to steer much of what NTCC
does since 2004.
Here
are the links:
Since
you have recently shared that married women working is against the Bible (though
we all know it is permanent NTCC policy, so is not a policy change), I know you
appreciate being notified of this, since Sis. Stevens’ soul is in danger until
this is stopped, and you can pray for her.
Because
Senior Pastor Davis is the Pastor to the Ministers in NTCC, could you just print
the attachment, and give the attachment to him please, since he doesn’t have
an email address that I know of. Thank-you.
On
a personal-to-you note, it is being reported that your wife Tanya has been
contradicting/undermining NTCC’s no-married-working-women policy behind your
back (although, it is well know she teaches at the Seminary, and is a
contributing writer and editing assistant for the Trumpet), and in your own Graham
church.
In
an unrelated side note, it is also being reported she is grumbling about your latest
Mansion’s walk-in-closet’s smallness, and the smallness of your latest Mansion’s
kitchen. Even though your struggles in Graham are great, and widely celebrated in
NTCC (and online), if true, I am surprised she would complain about the
hardship of something you provided for her. Deborah never does this, which is
why this is so disturbing if true.
I bring this up to you because although you have three jobs, you have shared your spiritual gift is administration, which includes email (which is also part of your 3 jobs).
In
His Service,
Gregory
Shunk
Here
is the references attachment for Senior Pastor Davis:
Dear
Senior Pastor Davis,
I
hope you are in good health. We both want you to live a very long time.
Recently,
it has come to my attention that Sis. Stevens has yet another secular job in
Korea. This time it’s her own business, which she started in 2011. I don’t know
if she is also still teaching her ESL course.
Here
are the links so someone can show them to you:
Also,
Lillian’s email address is: crazyseoulsister@gmail.com
Very
Respectfully,
Gregory
Shunk
Here is the response I got from
Senior Pastor Kekel (3 day turn-around time):
From: Michael Kekel mckekel@hotmail.com
To: Gregory Shunk gtshunk@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012
12:46 PM
Subject: Reply
Sorry, I cannot deliver your mail or
attend to your issues at this time (sic)
Here is my response to Senior Pastor
Kekel's response:
From: Gregory Shunk gtshunk@yahoo.com
To: Michael Kekel mckekel@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012
1:35 PM
Subject: Reply
No problem. No issues. The email and
attachment were strictly FYI for you both.
Though it was not expected, thanks
for responding.
More Commentary:
That was quick, though I am not sure
why he responded at all. There was nothing in my FYI email to him (or the
attachment to Senior Pastor Davis) that required (or demanded, or indicated) a
response. Just the independent and timely administrative action of delivering my letter to Senior Pastor Davis.
Senior Pastor Kekel only took 3 days
to answer my NRN email yet it took Senior Pastor Kekel almost a year to answer
Bro. Bellamy, and 4 years and 8 months (and still counting) to not answer my
other email when he said he would get back to me. His non-response is especially disturbing since I was requesting his help in getting my tithe past the administrative mail gauntlet at NTCC's HQ, and into their coffers.
This
Spiritual-Gift-of-Administration is sure hard to figure out. Oh well, “…my
thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,”
saith the LORD.
Yet, I always believed the manifestation
of the gifts and callings of God would be more Godly (i.e. diligent, timely,
straight forward, honest, guile-less, consistent, dependable, and useful [i.e. Godly]).
And, I always thought the
Gift-of-Administration would be more…well, administratively useful to the
recipient. I have never met anyone else that publicly admitted this was their
gift; and especially their only gift. Kind of off-putting, in the same way a man
repeatedly bragging about his knitting skills is off-putting. But, it does
start to explain his palpable pride in his always-kept-at-home "ministry," and makes his periodic
online chest-thumping even more remarkable (Deborah especially likes this
paragraph, which is why I left it in…FYI,
I write a lot of things that get edited out of the final draft).
I sure have a lot to learn about God’s
gifts based only on how they are manifested by a religion leader’s action(s).
Fact continues to be stranger than
fiction.
In His Service,
Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned
32 comments:
I've heard that the stevens are in the States now, maybe just for the conference now that they have money from her job.
I remember the times that it was preached that the women need to be soul winners since they had so much free time at home.
wives were encouraged to go shopping to the walmart so that they could invite people.
wives were encouraged to go door to door at their apt complex to invite people,
with all the crazy people around in these times can't imagine a woman alone knocking on the doors of her complex, imagine that!
I like this topic. It's a sore subject for many. There has been a double standard with women being allowed to work for quite sometime in the NTCC. I think Mrs. Stevens is doing good to get and keep a job. Her photography skills are a bit unrefined, (exposure, focus, framing, etc) but if you are going to do it, you have to start somewhere. Nevertheless, good for her. I'd be surprised if RWD ever gets your message. Tanya is such a hypocrite it's unbelievable. It's clear that she doesn't have a conscience but the Appless doesn't fall far from the tree.
I mean with all the information out now, you really have to be out of your mind to follow Mike and Tanya Kekel. Neither one of them could teach me jack about how to be a good decent Christian. They could teach me how to be a greedy, spoiled rotten, hypocrite but that's about it. They are both very good at that. Tanya and Mike make the Pharisees and Scribes look pretty decent.
When I wrote "Appless", I meant "false prophetess". That woman is so phony is unbelievable that anyone listens to her. And she is a seminary teacher? Good grief, I can only imagine how twisted her classes are. "It's ok for a woman to have a job".
Really Tanya? What rock have you been hiding under? You must have been sleeping or you simply missed the part where 1000 different NTCC preachers/false prophets taught that it's a "SIN" for a married woman to have a job outside the home. Sickening.
Jeff,
I like this topic too. Senior Pastor Kekel made a big production out of "revealing" Deb worked in Korea.
But, Senior Pastor Kekel is not involved with the Churches outside of Graham, unless he involves himself behind Senior Pastor Davis' back (like he did in Panama with Becky).
I never dealt with him about anything Church related. Unless it was something from the print shop (and that was only 1 time), or to plan internet strategy against the Exers, and damage control.
It is true ALL of the Pastor wives in Korea work secular jobs, and have for at least the past 20 years.
Deb even paid tithe in her name to the Cult.
I even sent a letter to Rev. Olson in 1998 (at his request) delineating in detail what her hours were, and what she specifically did, and what her pay was.
I guess Senior Pastor Kekel was the only one who didn't know.
Years ago, Marc Perez (a licensed Minister at the time) wrote about his wife being allowed by HQ to re-enlist in the Army; which also entails wearing pants. But, this is all hearsay thus far, isn't it.
Well, now Lillian has provided verifiable proof that Deb wasn't the only one.
It will be interesting to see how consistent Senior Pastor Kekel's internet outrage against women working will be. And if his wife will be allowed to keep working.
So far not a peep from Senior Pastor Kekel. Neither to my email, nor on his blog.
No problem, I did my duty to God by reporting her; my conscience is clear. The rest is on Senior Pastor Davis/Kekel.
FYI, I am also glad she has started her own business. She deserves better. She is a real go getter, and very outgoing. A pleasure to be around. I think her photography quality is great, but I am no expert.
Gregory
Anonymous,
According to Lillian's facebook page they are in Chicago for a 2 to 3 week revival. I don't know if Rev. Stevens is preaching, but they are there none the less.
This would seem to indicate that they are no longer assigned to Korea. Maybe they are going back to the Philippines, and John and Becky will get to come back stateside.
This would also be another policy change...Revivals are to be no longer than 1 week.
Those poor people...Church every night, 6 days a week, for 2 to 3 weeks. Plus follow-up before, plus fellowship after, plus work a full time job, or be a keeper at home.
As far as women soul-winning goes...you are right, they had to be keepers at home unless they were soul winning (or were in Korea, or were named Tanya), or doing other church activities. And women have run into dangerous situations knocking on doors.
Gregory
DS or GS said...
Those poor people...Church every night, 6 days a week, for 2 to 3 weeks. Plus follow-up before, plus fellowship after, plus work a full time job, or be a keeper at home.
Chief wrote...
They better secure their wallets!!! Assuming there really is a 2 - 3 week revival, I'm sure it was specifically designed to raise money. That's what the revivals are for. I figured that out as a result of being at the church in Atlanta. The revivals took place coincidentally during the time that Mayers was having money troubles. I know because at one of the "revivals" Olson announced that the church in Atlanta was having financial troubles and all money that was taken up during that particular offering would stay in the Atlanta Church. Beforehand, Mayers even announced that the rent needed to be paid on the storefront church building we were having services in and he started taking up two offerings per service. Then low and behold, a revival was announced and Olson announced that the church had a "need".
Occasionally, out of the blue, Mayers would announce his own revival and preach his own services which meant offerings would be taken up 6 or 7 days in a row. What a scheme to make money. It was never about the souls. It was about making money. On another occasion, L.D. Jones went to Atlanta to preach a "revival" and when Mayers refused to provide monetary support to Jones, Jones packed up and left. So it was never about souls but about making sure someones pockets got lined a little bit more than they were before the revival started.
And how can I say that? Because Mayers said that he didn't want to quote, "spend his own money" on church bills which was never his money to begin with but money we paid in tithes. He wanted "extra" money and that money often came as the result of multiple revival services and or extra offerings per service. RWD announced in a conference I was attending, that a preacher was not to call Graham complaining of financial troubles if he wasn't having a "full compliment of services" i.e. 5 services a week. RWD also said that some preachers didn't have enough money because they were afraid to ask "their people" for it!!!! The whole thing was just an NTCC scam designed to have real estate paid for by the church members. All the individual pastors at the time may not have seen it that way, but it was set up that way from the start. Nothing but a big scam, RWD style.
The NTCC is a scam and if you can't see it, you're blind. With my own ears, I listed to these NTCC people make the statements that I quoted and it don't take a genius to figure out what was going on. We were getting played, plain and simple.
The other purpose for the "revivals" / money making schemes, was to get people re-motivated to spend more time going door to door which ultimately mean more money in tithes and offerings. When my wife and I were in Atlanta, we thought it was strange that Mayers and his wife were looking at half-a-million+ dollar homes. We thought that was strange because at that time in Atlanta, you could get a really large home for $200K. I'm talking about a home that was between 4 and 5 thousand square feet and Mayers was looking a half-a-million+ dollar homes? The homes he was looking at were monstrous!!!
Of course I figured this out years ago but now I know what it was all about. When Mayers saw an increase in people coming to the church, all he saw was dollar signs and he really felt that his church was going to bring him in enough money to afford a half-a-million+ dollar house. Some of the houses he was looking at were actually about 6 or 7 hundred thousand dollar houses!!!! And that is the sick mentality in the NTCC. Those crooked NTCC leaders think it's everyone's responsibility to make a few people rich and that is what has happened in Graham. When Barnes was in the NTCC, he was so greedy that he announced in church one day when my wife and I happened to be in Mississippi, that his congregation could forget about getting out of the offering by coming to church late because he was going to keep someone posted by the door with the offering plate through the entire service for anyone who came to church late and if I'm lying, I'm dying!!!!!! Just as sure as I'm sitting here typing at this computer that is what Barnes said.
When are you NTCC people going to get sick and tired of giving your money away to some greedy crook like Barnes, Kekel, Davis or Denis???? Are you so blind that you can't see what's going on right in front of your face???? GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!
Prove me wrong and stop giving your money to these churches and just see how Barnes, Davis, Kekel or Denis will start treating you? You'll be dirt and they'll preach at you every chance they get and if you don't comply, they'll run you off!!!!! Bet!!!!! All you are to them is a Dollar sign!!!! They don't care about your soul, all they care about is your money and that is the difference between them and Paul the Apostle. Paul wouldn't accept a dime from anyone in the church in Corinth and he didn't send them to hell in the process. Paying tithes was not mandatory then and it isn't now. At least not according to the New Testament and not under the dispensation of Grace. Prove me wrong using the New Testament Bible.
Good Morning. This is a good topic and it reveals the hypocrisy of Super Apostle Kekel (SAK). It is becoming so obvious that the ntcc is nothing more than a big snow job for SAK and RWD to hide mass accumulations of wealth. The Super Apostle Kekel, who has 3 jobs and works 24/7 sure seems to have lots of spare time on his hands. He plays volleyball out in front of his mansion and has lots of games like foosball and such.
I would be surprised if you hear anything back from SAK or RWD. RW-Dirtbag isn't going to give you the time of day, and I doubt it is within SAK's best interest to have an open dialogue with you because it would expose him for the lying SAK that he is.
What it does establish is that these rich rulers are conning people out of their money and using a lying tongue to keep people in their places. It's a snow job and a big time cover up.
What seems to be taking place right now in the ntcc, is that they have told so many lies that they can not explain them. Like politicians that are confronted about lies that they have told, they can only sling mud and try to attack the character of the individuals that expose them.
DnA
By the way, this is really good stuff. This topic has been covered a lot but this blog post is really effective and eye opening. I'm glad you wrote those letters to RWD and SAK. Even if they don't write back or if they completely ignore you, it has to make them realize that they have been publicly outed for their hypocrisy once again. I'm sure they follow your blog and they are probably wondering how many people will confront them on this subject. Hopefully this will wake folks up.
DnA
Good eye-opening info Jeff,
Revivals do bring in more money, but it all goes to the Evangelist (up to $500 per week), and the extra offerings never covered the Evangelist’s pay and the extra expense of hosting him and his wife at any of the Churches we Pastored.
And, an NTCC style revival wears the Church out. And I have never seen the promised bump in attendance that a revival was supposed to bring. And in the case of Rev’s Ashmore and Denis preaching a revival, their presence was so disruptive with their demands (Ashmore/Denis), idiosyncrasies (Ashmore), teaching (Denis), bloviating (both) et cetera that it always hurt any church we Pastored; and took months to recover from. Plus, Sis. Denis’ loud and shrill praying during any prayer meetings was a huge distraction for all in attendance.
Thanks DnA,
The email I sent doesn't require an email response to me, but it does require action on the part of Senior Pastor Kekel; unless he is comfortable modeling yet another instance of hypocrisy.
It doesn't even matter if he passes the info on to Senior Pastor Davis, because Senior Pastor Kekel is not required to do what I say. Although, Senior Pastor Kekel’s Spiritual-Gift-of-Administration should compel him to pass on the info (unless he now decides what information Senior Pastor Davis’ gets; which would make 4 jobs for Senior Pastor Kekel). Plus, the Org knows Org wives work in Korea (except for Senior Pastor Kekel).
But again, the rule of not-being-a-hypocrite requires him to take the action of making an online stink about Lillian's business.
I just checked Senior Pastor Kekel's CEO Blog and there is still not a peep of rebuke for Sis. Stevens. Plus, her business's facebook page and Blog are still up; so it hasn't been handled offline yet by Senior Pastor Kekel either.
I don't know what Senior Pastor Kekel is waiting for...her soul is in danger.
Gregory
Hello to both our readers,
Here is the response I got from Senior Pastor Kekel (3 day turn-around time):
From: Michael Kekel mckekel@hotmail.com
To: Gregory Shunk gtshunk@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:46 PM (8 minutes after my above comment)
Subject: Reply
Sorry, I cannot deliver your mail or attend to your issues at this time (sic)
Here is my response to Senior Pastor Kekel's response:
From: Gregory Shunk gtshunk@yahoo.com
To: Michael Kekel mckekel@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 1:35 PM
Subject: Reply
No problem. No issues. The email and attachment were strictly FYI for you both.
Though it was not expected, thanks for responding.
More Commentary:
That was quick, though I am not sure why he responded at all. There was nothing in my FYI email to him (or the attachment to Senior Pastor Davis) that required (or demanded, or indicated) a response.
Senior Pastor Kekel only took 3 days to answer my NRN email yet it took Senior Pastor Kekel almost a year to answer Bro. Bellamy, and 4 years and 8 months (and still counting) to not answer my other email when he said he would get back to me.
This Spiritual-Gift-of-Administration is sure hard to figure out. Oh well, “…my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” saith the LORD.
Yet, I always believed the manifestation of the gifts and callings of God would be more Godly (i.e. diligent, timely, straight forward, honest, guile-less, consistent, and dependable [i.e. Godly]).
And, I always thought the Gift-of-Administration would be more…well, administratively useful to the recipient. I have never met anyone else that publicly admitted this was their gift; and especially their only gift. Kind of off-putting, in the same way a man repeatedly bragging about his knitting skills is off-putting. But, it does explain his palpable pride in his always-kept-at-home ministry, and makes his periodic online chest-thumping even more remarkable (Deborah especially likes this paragraph, which is why I left it in…FYI, I write a lot of things that get edited out of the final draft).
I sure have a lot to learn about God’s gifts based only on how they are manifested in a religion leader’s action(s).
Fact continues to be stranger than fiction.
In His Service,
Gregory the Foolish and Unlearned
Wow, I just clicked on the link about faith tabernacle church and read for a bit. So much like the NTCC in so many regards. They were no more than a bunch of crooks just like the NTCC leadership.
Jeff
Right, I read it just for something too read last night, and the more I read the more like our Cult it was, and they were UPC.
I really have no interest in other Cults (just ours), but the more I read, the more my jaw dropped. Click on the links as you read through the article, and it gets more similar, not less.
Talking about crooks, even down to not prosecuting the Pastor for embezzling money. Exactly like they didn't prosecute Denis. Even leaving with no notice because of scandal, just like Senior Pastor Davis did.
Segregated seating, church school for the kids K-12 education, arranged marriages, blasting folks from the pulpit (just like Barnes did with that lady, and Senior Pastor Davis does), permission for everything, rules for everything, severe dress code, and on and on and on.
Preaching just like our Cult, teaching just like our Cult, Pastor worship just like our Cult, politics just like our Cult, sex scandals just like our Cult, Church housing around the Big House (Bonco) just like our Cult, etc...it must be a duck.
I will probably do a summary of that church, and post it as an article.
Wow, wow, wow...or maybe I should say ow, ow, ow...cause these people definitely are in pain, just like we were.
So glad we are not in the Cult anymore.
Gregory
Even down to preying on the Military, and coercing them to give up there carrier, and disobey orders, all for "God." No marriage outside the Cult Church, etc. No working women, women in subjection, if they want something from there husband act like a whore to get it, etc. Men act uber-manly, women act uber-meek.
This link really has me wound up...can you tell?
Gregory
I know Bro, and the sad part is, the United States is chalk full of such churches. There should be laws that result in severe prosecution for that garbage. The Church of Christ is similar just in a different way. There are lots of churches that are somewhat similar. Spiritually, world wide, Christianity is severely twisted in that regard. Even the churches that do good for people are often corrupt. It's true Greg. I've visited some since I left the NTCC and many of them are really way out there and it wasn't that I was just fault finding either.
The pastor of one of them talked about how God could raise the price of gas even higher if people neglected the offering and I kid you not. Another one had a "praying in tongues" show all set up with an interpreter and they showed it on a big screen so everyone could get a good look. Another tried to show a similarity between Barak Obama and the "Barak" of the Bible.
Different churches but the same kind of shenanigans as the NTCC. Just a different flavor. Bro, I can't stand many of these churches. I'd rather hang around just about anyone than hang around a "Christian Manipulative Crook". I have no tolerance or patience for folks like Olson, Davis and Kekel anymore. I don't even like being around people like that. People like that are so fake and it's the same old mumbo jumbo rhetoric. Everybody claims to be "called". Everybody claims to "know God". Everybody claims to have a "relationship with God". And Bro I can see right through so many of these people. Genuine servants of the Lord are hard to come by because so many people are so fake. I'm not being judgmental either; I'm just being real.
By the way, I meant "chock full".
And Davis has the nerve to talk bad about Lawyers and Car Salesmen? He's more crooked than all of them put together. When I think about crooks nowadays, Church leaders come to my mind before Lawyers and Car Salesmen. Many church leaders kind of fall in the same category as politicians. They tell you what you want to hear so they can get your vote of approval and your money for their continued campaign. They love power and authority and they have no problem misusing and abusing it.
Guys like Kekel and Davis are at the bottom of the bucket in my book. The slop bucket.
Kekel said:
"Sorry, I cannot deliver your mail or attend to your issues at this time (sic)"
DnA said:
That's pretty lame. But you got to figure that he has three jobs and works 24/7, and plays volleyball. He seems to be lacking in his skills as an administrator. You would think that addressing your "issues" properly in a timely fashion would be a simple task for someone who was called for this very purpose.
As for delivering your mail, I guess that must have been a little too much to ask. Maybe Kekel is screening all of RWD's mail and deciding which mail is important enough for him to read. Perhaps RWD does not want to be bothered with certain types of mail/email. I wonder if he reads the blogs for himself.
The lies have been told over and over for quite some time and I assume that they are just tired of trying to justify themselves. It's quite a tall order to even expect Kekel to respond, because it seems like the "issues" in question require answers that contradict what has been preached for years. I know you said that your email did not require a response and that is pretty much what you got, was a non-response. But this topic really exposes ntcc hypocrisy and anyone who reads it, can clearly see that Kekel, Davis and the General or Executive Board of the ntcc are lying to the remnant of ministers and church members that are holding on for dear life.
DnA
Chief said:
"And Bro I can see right through so many of these people. Genuine servants of the Lord are hard to come by because so many people are so fake."
DnA said:
Truer words are seldom spoken. I drove for a company a couple years ago, that claimed to be a Christian company, and they had the Isaiah 40:31 scripture painted on all of their trailers. They operated out of a very expensive command center that reminded me of Norad in that they had an operations war room with huge flat screens and they could track any of their trucks by pinpointing their locations.
However, in spite of all of their technology and Christian principles, they had a very hard time paying us. The leadership was laced with nepotism, being run and operated by family members. We went almost a month without getting paid and finally quit and had to fight them through legal channels to get the money they owed us.
Because of this group of hypocrites, whenever somebody in the trucking industry tries to use scriptures or logos on their trailers to express their Christianity, it makes us want to vomit.
I agree with you Chief that Genuine servants of God are hard to find. Usually they do not advertise their Christianity or attempt to ram it down peoples throats. They usually perform random acts of kindness and love without seeking recognition or the approval of others. Christianity usually speaks louder through actions than it does through profession or the phony mess that the modern day churches seem to pedal for monetary gain.
DnA
DnA wrote..."Maybe Kekel is screening all of RWD's mail and deciding which mail is important enough for him to read."
Since we are speculating, maybe Senior Pastor Davis has seen the light and wants to escape his Cult, but is being help hostage. Maybe that is what his new home in Arizona was for, but they caught on when we outed this, and he has been a captive ever since, only paraded out for conferences, etc.
Or maybe he told Verna he was leaving his Cult and she didn't want to leave Tanya and Grant so she turned him in.
Although, Senior Pastor Davis is a life long prisoner of his own psychosis. And we all paid the price, and were in captivity with him.
Gregory
ROFLOL. Too Funny.
ROFLOL!!!! That was funny. Especially when I say your response DnA. You guys are funny.
I just checked Senior Pastor Kekel's CEO Blog and there is still not a peep of rebuke for Sis. Stevens. Plus, her business's facebook page and Blog are still up; so it hasn't been handled offline by Senior Pastor Kekel either.
5 days and still no action by Senior Pastor Kekel. What is he waiting for? Her soul is in danger.
Also, why isn't he concerned that he is a hypocrite until he makes an online stink about Lillian's business?
It is instructive seeing how inconsistent Senior Pastor Kekel's internet outrage against working women is.
I wonder if his wife will be allowed to keep working, and teaching men in their Bible College.
Once again, things Senior Pastor Kekel does and says generate more questions than answers. Maybe this is just another NTCC policy.
Gregory
That's what it is; another NTCC policy. It's called "the denial policy". Just deny everything and discount and ignore all accusations.
*like*
Although, that is not what a Christian does, Jeff.
Gregory
one pastor was so tired of explaining why tk worked outside of the home he got angry.he belched I do not care what SHE does YOU are not going to work outside of the home!
Anonymous,
There are so many contradictions in the Cult. I used to just tell people that "such and so" was what Pastor Davis taught, and what we were taught in Bible College, and that these other Preachers and NTCC leaders could just do what they want. But, as for my house and my church we are going to do the right thing, and what we knew to do based on what we had personally heard, and been taught. And, that maybe we didn’t know the whole story, and shouldn’t pass judgment.
Of course, regarding working women, my congregations new Deb worked, and that it had been approved by Pastor Davis. But, the Org still didn’t allow the women in my congregation to work. I also insured (before NTCC’s never completed website) that my congregation had the leaderships phone number, and email address in case they wanted to check on anything.
Or...I would tell the congregation that maybe the person didn't know because they haven't been to conference, etc.
Or...When someone told me how I should do things, I would tell the offending Preacher that that isn't what he was taught, this was. Or that wasn’t what had been taught at the last conference, etc. This didn't always go over very well, but they could not contradict what I said, because they had heard the policy also. They just weren't doing right...Ala Pastor Briggs, Rev. Oloans, etc.
Then there are those Preachers that seldom went to conference, and would just do their own thing, even when I would come back from conference and tell them about a new policy (blitzkrieg, etc), and volunteer to help them set up the database, forms, etc…to be a blessing to them. They wouldn't do it, and wouldn't call to see if what I was saying was right...Ala Rev. MacDonald, Rev. Hanna, etc.
Then there was Rev. Dennis who would come around with all these new ways to do things. I would ask him if this was an official approved change, and he would hem and haw around the answer, that he has the mind of Pastor and knows what Pastor Davis wants, and what the Holy Ghost wants. So I would call Senior Pastor Davis or Rev. Olson to verify, and they would just tell me to do whatever Rev. Dennis said (so I stopped calling). But then years later everyone was supposedly “shocked” that Rev. Denis was a bad egg, dishonest, undermining, and a loose cannon.
It’s fatiguing even thinking about this stuff sometimes.
Gregory
3 weeks and still no public rebuke for Sis. Stevens on Senior Pastor Kekel's CEO Blog. What is he waiting for...her soul is in danger.
Plus, her business's facebook page and Blog are still up; so it hasn't been handled offline by Senior Pastor Kekel either.
Gregory
Well great. Should I worry if ol rdub is being held hostage? Nah I'm good. But you know I almost wonder. After talking to SAK as he was called (great name. - makes me think of a sad sack of manure) but anyway, SAK KNEW I asked more than once that rdub be told I wanted to talk to hm about my mariage. I waited and waited. I finally gave up hope.......... Then one day, a few YEARS later rdub asked where my husband was. Gulp, gasp, he'd never been told! I started to explain we were separated. I wanted to say I'd been waiting over two years to talk to him when Verna interrupted telling him, kinda hand over mouth, they're divorced. What? I said no, we're separated and I was waiting to talk to him. I saw his attention immediately walked away so I figured yep, I'm the bad guy now so I left. Ol kek never told him though I talked to him on the phone, via email, and in person about it. Maybe rdub is a hostage - not. More like why would kek tell rdub antything he doesnt want him to hear. Its easier for him to bash us and keep his grip over his cult than to have to answer to anything.
This was truly a good post. Thank you for sharing and thank you Gregory for being considerate of Sis. Stevens soul. Shouldnt they be?! Am I being facetious.
As for Davis and AZ he really took a fond liking to the Hall's of Phx. They really jump at every breath rdub makes so they have great favor. Rdub really liked AZ and Verna loves shopping with Sis Hall. Glad we used to help finance that.
Yeah K. This has been my experience with Senior Pastor Kekel also. He neglects the most important administrative duties. And his only spiritual gift (according to his own written words) is the gift of administration.
For example...In 2008, I asked him (by email-14 February 2008) how I was supposed to pay my tithe when any ministry related mail I was sending (with tithe check enclosed) was being returned to me unopened, he wrote back that he would "...let you know what's going on [about how to pay my tithe]."
I am still waiting (I was an NTCC-Ordained Minister until 31 December 2008).
We will email you so we can get together in Washington.
Gregory
I just checked Senior Pastor Kekel's CEO Blog and there is still not a peep of rebuke for Sis. Stevens. Plus, her business's facebook page and Blog are still up; so it hasn't been handled offline by Senior Pastor Kekel either.
14 weeks and still no action by Senior Pastor Kekel. What could he possibly be waiting for? As long as this remains unaddressed he is once again a hypocrite.
Maybe this is why. His hypocrisy is a persistent abiding state with him, so it is therefore no problem to keep adding to it.
Gregory
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