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| I'm tired after 7 years. |
Hello everybody,
I am sorry I haven't posted anything in a while. Please have patience with me. My Mom and I are in the process of moving books and furniture, beds etc. around the house (Gregory is just back from Afghanistan and is again at Fort Campbell in-processing). My brother is coming and we really don't have anyone to help us get the house ready, so he and his wife have a place to stay. So it's been mostly me trying to get things in order. As many of you know I also work full time, and am fully involved in my Mom's church. Hopefully this weekend I can type out more of my story.
Life is good!
Deborah
68 comments:
I know how busy (and happy) you are. Be careful Baby. Don't hurt yourself. I know how hard you work once you get going. Wish I could be there to help you. Miss you. Hopefully I'll see you soon.
Gregory
Sassy, not to be totally rude or anything, but you might want to consider not having your profile all in caps. It's kind of hard to read :)
Jennifer,
Thanks for the tip. I've tried amending that; but, alas, my internet connection was dropped at just the wrong moment ;~}
Maybe another time.
Sassy
BTW
THANKS! Thank you to all who have checked out the updated profile. That's just the beginning of what ntcc wants a person to sacrifice in order to serve the borg.
If you keep reading, you will see far greater sacrifices by many people who are better than I and who have given their all to this organization only to be betrayed, kicked out, and lied about.
Not True Christians Cult is all about manipulating people to sustain the borg.
Don't be fooled by the 'nice'. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good. :) But get / stay away from ntcc inc.
BTDT
Sassy ;~}
Miss Deborah,
As I read your post I was struck by how different your life is from the lives of some of the ntcc's leaders that I've seen.
When my husband Eric Barden worked for ntcc on their building crew we spent a couple of winters at their national campground. During the winter all the buildings except the caretakers' house and the Lodge have no water. So Eric and I would live at the Lodge during the winter.
Many times the davis's would come out to the camp. They used it as a personal vacation spot. And on some of these trips r.w.'s brother Basil, "Uncle Dave" Davis and his wife, "Aunt Harriet", would come out for a visit.
I don't recall them ever spending the night there, though there was certainly more than enough room. How odd.
And verna always seemed anxious or nervous about these visits, not excited or happy, like one would expect. Very odd.
And yet she didn't have too much to prepare since Jan Mears and I would deep clean the whole Lodge for davis's visits. And verna could just paint landscapes or portraits or roses all night in her bedroom if she wanted to. That's usually what she did there. Hmmn. Strange.
I read your post and sense a happiness and anticipation regarding your brother's arrival. You are active already and yet make time to prepare and welcome this loved one to your home.
Yes, that is very different from the davis's who allowed the whole Hampton family, Rich, Diana, and the four kids Phillip, Anthony, Christina, and David do be homeless in Mexico, Missouri which is only 15 miles from the ntcc national campground with hundreds of empty beds and that huge old lodge which could have accommodated them perfectly.
Yet davis allows one of ntcc's own pastors and his wife who was previously married to a Board Member live out of someone else's car garage...
ntcc Selfish. Sinful. Sickening. Snakes.
Very different indeed.
Sorry to be a downer. My original intention was to highlight your obvious love and passion for souls.
Perhaps the contrast will serve to do so. And perhaps the
Diana (Marshall) Hampton story must be told in all its sordid detail to show people exactly how sick and selfish and twisted davis is.
But doesn't that just break your heart to think of a woman such as Diana is who has literally given her all to the ntcc for years to have to go through something like that?
And didn't Rich and his kids deserve something better? Their hearts were already broken before ntcc did this to them. davis is no pastor; he is a hireling.
People need to know these things. They need to understand that if ntcc could treat Diana and her family that way, ntcc will do the same or worse to anyone. To you or your loved ones.
Miss Deborah knows. That's why she made this blog, even though she is plenty busy being about her Heavenly Father's business.
Thanks again, Miss Deborah. And please don't feel the need to apologize! You're doing a great work!
Sassy
That's why she made this blog, even though she is plenty busy being about her Heavenly Father's business.
sorry somethings may be correct. But I can not stand the jargon that was used in ntcc. Being about my father's bussiness. ntcc wore this one into the ground!
What shouts "CULT" like loaded-language and jargon?
My sincere apologies to the anonymous poster who is rightfully sickened by the ntcc jargon. Experiences vary. And I won't list the many ntcc things that cause automatic knee-jerk reactions in me because I might open too many wounds doing so. Really, you have my sincerest apologies!
Sassy :-o
Sassy,
that is very sweet to care that though it is biblical correct. Being about my father's bussiness to ntcc. Was about doing nothing but door knocking,handing out flyers,checking up on people. BUGGING THEM!
You are correct. Just bringing up there pet jargon sayings. Can bring up so much! I wish it was not so. Can be sitting in a church setting. And a another minister can use a quote. What happens is flashbacks to life while stuck in ntcc.
That is what can cause anger. they took what is pure and good and twisted it. Used it for there own agenda. To FLEECE THE SHEEP!!
CM
Oh sassy, that was a very sad story about the hamptons.
just to think that with so many
rooms in the camp, why not let them use them.?
Even as degrading as diana has been treated I don't think she will ever leave.
I remember when she used to be married to marshall and many a times I heard the board members wives critizing her for always talking about her illnesses and all. They thought that she was a hypocondriac of sorts.
But this was typical of the
overseers, to say and bring
down people to others so that
there was no respect at all.
xo
they took what is pure and good and twisted it. Used it for there own agenda. To FLEECE THE SHEEP!!--CM
And there it is, folks, in a nutshell. satan at his worst: taking what is pure and good and twisting it....
In bible speak, they have PERVERTED THE WORDS OF THE LIVING GOD...
But God does see everything and does require that which is past.
I might just write down all those trigger phrases and music and other things that remind me of ntcc. Then shred or burn the paper. I've heard it's a good way to heal. Like throwing out the photos of the old boyfriend ;~}
Good post, CM!
Sassy
In one month the crops will Blossom.
Mark your calendar 4/2/2010 !
click "aPreacher" for pic.
I like that idea of writing it all down and then burning it up!
I have already prayed for God to wipe my brain clear of ntcc biblical FALSE teachings.
I would rather start over from scratch. Then try and decide is this true,is this not true! So between me and God we are working out his word!
CM
xo,
Thanks for the input on Diana H. I love that lady. Prayer and love and hope that God will open the eyes and hearts of those still 'in'. For all the work that various people have put into ntcc and yet have ntcc treat them so wretchedly... sigh. I never would have thought of leaving myself until my husband did. Eric and I never discussed the matter. He just packed up, told me "I'm not leaving because of you." and left.
Yet the more I considered every dynamic of his decision to leave, the more I knew I had to go also. Eric and I never discussed the matter.
I knew I would be leaving everything and everyone I knew in ntcc. All my dreams and hopes. All my dear friends.
But I could not stay and be a part of an organization that has no regard for the people who do all the work for the rich leaders to get richer and abuse more people.
I could not stay and see one more life ruined.
Those who are in should consider their friends who have left with open hearts and minds. If you are in ntcc, listen to the Still Small Voice. The leaders in ntcc have told falsehoods (lies) about people who have left.
And back in the day where open communication was impossible ntcc got away with it; (except, of course, God does see).
Now the people who have left have a voice. It is well that you come here to read and consider these things. For you could be the next family, or couple, or individual in ntcc's cross-hairs.
Don't just listen to what anyone says. Be a fruit inspector. Consider peoples' hearts. Don't judge only by outward appearance. And don't assume gain ($$$$) = godliness. That is not a biblical measure of righteousness.
What if a person is homeless? Are they without God?
Consider Elijah, and John the Baptist. And the prophets. And the Lord who testified, The Son of Man hath nought where to lay His head.
ntcc has many pet doctrines that are biblicaly unsound. Read and search the scriptures daily to see if those things are so.
Peace to the true Israel of God.
Angela
"In one month the crops will Blossom."
What's going to blossom from a poppy field!!?
Anon!
What should happen when someone needs help. . .
(click blogger name)--caution, You may be tempted to tap your toes and sing along...
graphic images of women with short hair praising God...
rated "E" for ever think of helping someone instead of hurting them?
I hate it when that happens! Wrong video link in my first comment. Try this one :)
"In one month the crops will Blossom."
What's going to blossom from a poppy field!!? Anon!
Poppies. Duh.
Are you mad? You sound mad. Do you assume the worst? Because there is a picture of poppies do you think heroin?
Poppies are pretty.
satan driven men take the good and turn it to evil.
Perhaps this new link will please you. I seek to please the One Who died for me. He directed me to leave a comment. I obeyed.
aPreacher
What those purple blossoms will look like later...
Close-up. Note the name in the URL or address box. :o)
Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her./And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt./Hosea 2:14+15.
ntcc is a cult. ask kurious in killeen...
I guess those in Killeen got terrorized for reading the blogs. They no longer appear on the site map. Prior to being outed on this blog they were regular visitors.
Can anyone say CULT.
Folks, ntcc is a cult.
Cults control people by limiting their information and making rules that are not in the bible. CULT.
Site maps are fun, but be sure to know that the ntcc will exploit them to tell people not to read. If they see a visitor from killeen, the graham office will call that pastor and get on him about people going on the sinnernet and reading these blogs.
Maybe that is the best thing that can happen. Maybe they will wake up and realize how stupid and freakish it is to have someone else telling you not to research the truth for yourself.
Maybe they will bow the knee to ntcc one more time like good whipped boys and girls or dogs.
If God leads you to a website, follow God.
If a man tries to tell you what you can not read, ask yourself what is his motive. Is he trying to hide something like the truth about what a hypocrite he is. Like kekel feeling-up tanya when she was 14 and he was 23 yrs old and then turning around and throwing guys out of the bible school because kekel says he found a playboy magazine under that guy's mattress. Yeah, right! What a load of B(ible) S(chool)!
Sinners. Hypocrites. Snakes. Vipers. Den of thieves. Liars. False accusers. Incontinent. Fierce. Heady. High minded. Despisers of those that are good. Coveteous. Blasphemers. Unthankful. Unholy. Covenant breakers. Truce breakers. Supposing gain is godliness.
From such withdraw thyself.
Leave ntcc. Do not enter ntcc.
"Oh sassy, that was a very sad story about the hamptons.
just to think that with so many
rooms in the camp, why not let them use them.?"--xo
ntcc wanted to get rid of Diana.
She's too good a Christian for them. They can't have anybody around who has done more or knows more or has more people who love them. If you are in ntcc and people love you because they see your sacrificial life for Christ WATCH OUT! THE TARGET IS ON YOUR BACK!
verna and rdub can not be up-staged!
They will get rid of anyone they perceive as a threat to their Camelot Dynastic Empire.
Run while you may.
Or wait and pay.
Angela
"I remember when she (Diana Hampton) used to be married to marshall and many a times I heard the board members wives critizing her for always talking about her illnesses and all. They thought that she was a hypocondriac of sorts.
But this was typical of the overseers, to say and bring down people to others so that there was no respect at all.--xo
REAL CHRISTIANS would have prayed with her for those illnesses RIGHT THEN AND THERE.
but not ntcc Not True Christians Cult
Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. From such withdraw thyself.
Leave ntcc.
Angela
Are you mad? You sound mad. Do you assume the worst? Because there is a picture of poppies do you think heroin?
Poppies are pretty.
satan driven men take the good and turn it to evil.
Perhaps this new link will please you. I seek to please the One Who died for me. He directed me to leave a comment. I obeyed.
aPreacher
WHATEVER! Dude you are out there.............
HOW TO MOVE ON AND WHY YOU SHOULD LEAVE ntcc--
A word to all you 'ministers' in ntcc--
If you can read one more of these true stories about how davis and kekel abuse people and still carry a ntcc 'ministers' license in your pocket, then I've got no more respect for you.
Because you are saying that davis and kekel can abuse anybody they want to, as long as it isn't you.
But if you believe that God meant it when He said,
THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
you'll turn in your 'ministers' card without a word and leave ntcc. Just walk into kekel's office and drop it on his desk without a word and leave.
But if you want to stay in ntcc, then at your next cult meeting, look at the man on your side and tell him, "I don't love you 'brother'--so if kekel wants to scr*w you, that's fine with me; just so long as he doesn't scr*w me." Go ahead. Might as well be honest about it. Because every day you stay in ntcc and let kekel and davis ruin one more person's life, that is what you are really saying.
But if you want to be a real man again like you were before you turned over your manhood to ntcc, leave.
And if you think of me, put these three little letters on your 'ministers' license when you turn it in:
EJB
Those were my husband's initials.
Angela
reposted so it don't get lost in the shuffle!
Former Graham Lay Pastor said...
"Are you mad? You sound mad. Do you assume the worst? Because there is a picture of poppies do you think heroin?"
No I usually think morphine or Wizard of Oz.
Anon!
kekel feeling-up tanya when she was 14 and he was 23 yrs old
ntcc's president? a child molestor?
Rev. Kekel confirmed this one himself online.
Gregory
one thing i find very surprising is that i seem to be the only "relative" who reads and posts on these blogs, other than myself i dont know of anyone else. where is the care and concern for ones children being sucked into this cult when they go off to the military? dont parents investigate these things?
T
T,
you mean your the only relative of a person still stuck in ntcc?
I truly wish so many that have left ntcc would not just totally move on. And forget about the others left behind. Many of those that have left are military veterans like myself. I would think they would have that,do not leave a solider left behind mentality! That is exactly how I see it. I know those that are still under ntcc fog,stuck in ntcc. They need a lifeline thrown out to them. They need to come on and read with a OPEN mind and a OPEN heart! Only then will they realize what a SHAM they have been living under. It will be a HUGE eye opener. It was for me. Actually shocked me that my parents were right. I had been a cult all along!
T,you have not been on in quite sometime. Have you?
CM
Hey, T. Good to see you posting again. You noted: "one thing i find very surprising is that i seem to be the only "relative" who reads and posts on these blogs, other than myself i dont know of anyone else. where is the care and concern for ones children being sucked into this cult when they go off to the military? dont parents investigate these things?"--T
Those are valid questions. When I was in ntcc my (ex/deceased) husband, Eric, and I were helpers to Lee and Diana Taylor in the ntcc servicemens' home at Ft. Bragg, in Fayetteville, North Carolina. I met several couples whose sons were living in the servicemens' home.
They were indeed concerned and came to see for themselves what ntcc was all about.
Also some parents would call on the servicemens' home's phone and voice their concerns.
However, I don't recall any of these visits resulting in the members leaving ntcc right away. Maybe one. But he may have already chosen that before his mother arrived. Or Taylor may have asked him to move out. Not sure...
So out of 22 guys living in the two houses, I met parents of four (4) different guys in the eleven months that we were there.
And all those parents came from out of state and three of those couples stayed for services. In fact one brother preached the message during the service when his parents were there. I still remember much of that message. It was quite powerful. But I won't share that info here... Back to concerned parents: parents for 4 out of 22 guys living in the home...
That's a high percentage and shows a good deal of concern to come face to face from out of state and attend services and home functions.
Unfortunately, the way ntcc works is that they have nice people on the front lines doing the work.
THAT is who the parents meet. They don't necessarily meet r.w. davis, m.c. kekel and the cronies. And even if they did, rdub's demeanor would be different. (Putting on the nice act.) And all the cronies would follow suit. I know. I've lived at davis's Lodge on the ntcc National Campground so I have spent a good deal of time around them and am familiar with how they operate.
Come to think of it one of the guys parents did also visit him later a second time while he was at the B.S. in Graham, WA. We were there too as Eric was working on ntcc's building crew. I don't know if that minister whose parents came to visit him twice is in or out. I do know ntcc brought out the worst in him as that was discussed on factnet...
As far as these blogs go, I hope that these blogs are effective at KEEPING PEOPLE OUT of ntcc.
Perhaps some people read, Thank God, and never enter ntcc. Nor do they post anything to let us know. As long as they are spared the ntcc cult experience, I'm glad.
The site meters show strong first-time viewers numbers daily so my prayer is that God does use the blogs for prevention, not just deliverance for those already 'in' ntcc.
Knowing how ntcc operates, I'm sure the people 'in' ntcc are being blasted from the pulpits and being told not to read here "least you split hell wide open!" blah blah blah
God will open the eyes of those who truly seek HIS face, not just the Scooby Snack approval of a man playing God -- both ways, 1-playing God as in pretending to be God and 2-playing God for a blind fool, which He ain't. God sees and requires that which is past.
Glad to see you're back T. You bring a lot of passion!
Ange / Bit G / Angela / Sassy Frass
former E-5 U.S. Army / former worker / preacher's wife in ntcc -- the Not True Christian's Cult -- boy were we ever drinking some serious KOOK aid!!! (May God have mercy on my soul and help me do my part to help others avoid being sucked into the destructive cult ntcc, inc.)--Angela
dont parents investigate these things?"--T
They do investigate these things T. I seen plenty of parents come out to investigate NTCC when I was in. However, the dog and pony show commences.
If a parent really wants to investigate NTCC. They would have to come incognito. Prefably on the tail-end of "little Johnny's" field engagement. Don't come on a Sunday morning! Sunday nights or Thursdays are the best.
However T, most parents are afraid of alienating their grown children. Also if you are saved and filled with the Holy Ghost -ahem-, It is difficult to listen to relatives who seem to have "fallen short." It is better to have some relationship with your son, than risking not having one at all.
One of these days, some angry mother is going to start a blog of her own.
"Rev. Kekel confirmed this one himself online."
The groping? No, he denied it. He said they "didn't go there," whatever that's supposed to mean. But I will reiterate once again that I lived with him when it transpired, and my knowledge of it comes directly from his mouth. He boasted about making out and groping, even in the bible school office, where he worked at the time. Either he was lying then, or he's lying now (or else he's practicing NTCC's Clintonesque creative lying tecniques on us with some convoluted semantics).
Mike Kekel told me that he was making out and groping Tanya. I heard it myself, and so did another brother, who was so disturbed about it that he went to RW and told him about it. There were no consequences, though, other than a wrist slapping admonition over the pulpit that dating couples needed to quit playing footsies under the table, or some other such watered down pabulum.
Was she 14 then? Well, when the boasting occurred, Mike and I were living on Eiler street in St. Louis; I think we moved there in '81 or '82. So 15 or 16 is more likely, but then he didn't say how long it had been going on either. So that's a technicality, but even a 16 year old being pawed by a man who is 25 is considered creepy by most people.
Phil Kinson simultaneously admitted to the same activity with Debbie Johnson (who was even younger). The thing that disturbed us the most was that when we remonstrated with them about what they were doing, they got defensive and told us right upfront that they didn't plan on repenting. That sent the other brother over the edge, so he narked them out. But nothing came of it, and they're big wheels in the org now.
"dont parents investigate these things?""
When I was in BS, my parents were (rightfully) concerned, and my dad wrote a letter to express his misgivings. RW collared me in church and showed it to me, and spun it that my parents were tools of Satan trying to drag me away from the will of God. Naturally, being the docile mind-controlled zombie that I was, it worked, and I became even more wary and distrustful of my parents, whose only fault was loving me enough to care.
One time my mom and dad came to St. Louis during a conference at Holly Hills. We traveled there from Alaska. They sat in the second row, behind Verna during one service. Our daughter was around three, and she was with them. She fell asleep on the floor, and rolled under the pew. My folks told me that when Verna felt her knocking up against her legs, she started kicking her back. Even though my dad was scrupulously honest (far more so than the NTCC "leadership"), I refused to receive it and rebuked them for maligning RW's wench.
My dad is dead now, and my relationship with my mother has never really recovered; although we're not hostile or anything, we're not close like we were. Some things just can't be fixed.
Parents do occasionally write via the ntccxposed.com, trying to get insight into what has happened to their brainwashed kids and advice on what to do. At least now they can go online and get info; back in the day the org was able to keep the lid on their outrageous deeds.
Gregory said..."Rev. Kekel confirmed this one himself online."
This is about the third time you have called me on making this statement. I know what a stickler you are for accuracy, yet I still persist in making this statement. I will try to refrain from this comment in the future. In defense of myself, Rev. Kekel's response to this accusation was sufficiently vague (misleading) enough to lend even more credence to your version of the account of this period of NTCC history.
While I very strongly doubt there was any pre-marital penetration (Which is what 'I didn't go there' means, when not using NTCC speak...NTCC speak is intended to mislead those who don't pay close attention, thus not being a lie technically. His answer was instructive considering no one has ever accused him of pre-marital penetration), kissing and groping a young teenage, when you are a mid-twenties man, is wrong (dare I say illegal, maybe any barracks lawyers out there could shed some light on this).
People are legally pronounced sex offenders for less.
Vic (Rev. Kekel) confirmed a degree of carnal knowledge, thus confirming Rev. Kekel's wrong headedness, as well as that of Pastor Davis, who condoned the eventual marriage.
It makes me skin crawl to try to imagine having any type of intimate relationship with anyone under 18 when I was 26. Really anyone under 23.
This is yet another NTCC account that is inexcusable at every level. No justification could make this right.
Wikipedia said: "...very few jurisdictions use the actual term "statutory rape" in the language of statutes. Different jurisdictions use many different statutory terms for the crime, such as 'sexual assault', 'rape of a child', 'corruption of a minor', 'carnal knowledge of a minor', 'unlawful carnal knowledge', or simply 'carnal knowledge'."
The only classification that doesn't apply to what Vic has previously shared is 'rape of a child'. So I guess what Vic shared, about what Rev. Kekel shared with Vic (and others), about what he did to Tanya, before she married him, when she was 16 (and possible as young as 13), is OK after all. This is a relief, some times it help me to clarify things in my mind by discussing them openly.
Gregory
Sorry; just don't want to be accused of fabricating anything. Kekel's 'denial' certainly was doubletongued, and shouldn't be afforded much credibility, as you accurately observe. I would respect him for it if he would just come clean and admit that he did what I know he said he did, but then transparency isn't one of the NTCC leaderships virtues (and I can't think of any others, either).
Part of the problem was the NTCC culture, where young girls are continually groomed for early marriages. RW's position was that once a girl attained childbearing age, she was marriageable from a purely biblical standpoint; only those pesky laws of man stood in the way, a position he also held with regard to polygamy (except for ministers, who were to be the "husband of one wife"). Not too different from Warren Jeffs, really.
Vic,
No need to apologize. You are in the right, I am in the wrong (as is obvious to anyone who is paying attention). You have always taken the high road, me not so much (in this instance). Although I am adept at reading between NTCC's lines, and that is what I was doing in this case, this I should not do publicly. You have always set the example in this (being credible). I want/need to (must) follow your lead.
Gregory
ntcc's president a child molestor
michael c. kekel groped tanya when she was a minor and he was an adult. child molestor.
Vic said...
Was she (tanya davis) 14 then? Well, when the boasting occurred, Mike (kekel) and I were living on Eiler street in St. Louis; I think we moved there in '81 or '82. So 15 or 16 is more likely, but then he didn't say how long it had been going on either. So that's a technicality, but even a 16 year old being pawed by a man who is 25 is considered creepy by most people.
Phil Kinson simultaneously admitted to the same activity with Debbie Johnson (who was even younger). The thing that disturbed us the most was that when we remonstrated with them about what they were doing, they got defensive and told us right upfront that they didn't plan on repenting. That sent the other brother over the edge, so he narked them out. But nothing came of it, and they're big wheels in the org now. Vic
Aren't Christians supposed to obey the laws of the land? Isn't it illegal for an adult to paw a minor? Doesn't that constitute child molestation or sexual assault? Aren't other people in prison or jail right now for such actions?
But ntcc promotes gropers? Sounds like the guys running the show must have been the same type of horn-dogs to not be bothered by it. And these were daughters one of the president and the other of a board member in ntcc.
Folks, who is running ntcc?
Would Jesus grope a minor and brag about it? Would the heavenly Father do nothing about it but sweep it under the rug?
Maybe their offspring, the next generation of ntcc will be lining up for the privilege of illicit sex with their perverse leaders. It's not hard to imagine with the precedent being set in prior generations and girls already lining up for the privilege of doing every other domestic duty for the kekels.
Perverts!
BTW 'taking the high road' is just more ntcc jargon for sweep ntcc's sins under the carpet!
You are quite right about NTCC leaders' penchant for what is referred to as 'making a lie.' Lying is based on the intent to decieve. If one says (or refrains from saying) something, with the intent to deceive, it doesn't matter how technically true his actual words are: he is a liar. Or if one confers personal definitions on words in order to force them to correspond with actual truth, he is still a liar (cf. Bill Clinton's "I did not 'have sex' with that woman; no doubt he defined 'have sex' in some personal and not universally accepted sense. "We never went there" comes to mind as a more recent example).
Someone related an instance that when they were in church before service, the pastor told them "brother, ask me about tithes." The man was kind of befuddled by the request, but the pastor insisted that he ask him about tithes, so the man asked him about tithes. He just said "thank you," and that was it. Until the preaching started, that is, when this pastor proceeded to tell the congregation "people have been asking me about tithing, so I'd like to explain it to you, blah blah blah." And then, naturally, he laid down NTCC's tithe-or-go-to-hell guilt trip. But even though he technically told the truth when he said he had been asked about tithing, he lied by implying that there was a groundswell of inquiry about this subject, when no such interest was demonstrated.
Thus org leaders deceive the people. RW did that when he vehemently denounced his 'enemies' to us for allegedly spreading the rumor that he was on his third wife. His indignance strongly implied that he'd only been married once, and we only found out years later that Verna was #2 (which was a shocking revelation). Who knows what other skeletons lie undisturbed. I'd love to hear #1's story.
Thus org leaders deceive the people. RW did that when he vehemently denounced his 'enemies' to us for allegedly spreading the rumor that he was on his third wife. His indignance strongly implied that he'd only been married once, and we only found out years later that Verna was #2 (which was a shocking revelation). Vic
Yeah, he probably didn't actually marry the others. They probably just lived together, and had carnal knowledge of one another (sex), or, as davis likes to call it, they were
SHACKING UP
davis often taught a man and woman could not live under one roof and remain celibate. he said don't believe anyone who says that. he taught that they were liars if they said it; that they would definitely have sex together.
The abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. I guess he taught that because that is what he would do if given the opportunity. Who knows how many ladies he has "known" in the biblical sense? Well, God knows.
But he is a liar. He loves to live and make a lie. The blogs are full already of examples of him lying about things. Why should his sexual proclivities be any different?
Everything he does and says he does with the hopes of impressing some unsuspecting soul with his great powers of being a super apostle.
The Wizard of Oz little man behind the curtain comes to mind. But that Wizard was harmless. davis is harmful.
kekel is the same "breed" (dog?). Stretching the truth to mislead people (lying). Putting on airs (making a lie).
His "we didn't go there" was clearly meant to give the impression of denying all sex. But Vic exposed kekel for groping tanya
when she was a minor and he was an adult. Vic heard kekel bragging about it.
And Vic exposed phil kinson for also admitting to doing the same thing to or with debbie johnson who's even younger than tanya davis.
Then kekel and kinson would not repent either. That shows their heart. No shame. Neither could they blush.
Things don't get better with time. Things get worse over time. No telling what shameless things they now do and refuse to repent of; especially since they are now big shots in ntcc.
Thanks for your feedback everybody! I do realize that most parents care, although it does surprise me that more people do not post questions and such on these blogs.
also, i read the blogs everyday, i only add comments if i feel that i have something of value to offer. Seeing that you all have lived through this cult experience i think you are better equipped to speak on the subject.
I am very passionate about NTCC, i have seen what it has done to my brother and despise them for it! also i have always had a passion against false teachers from the time i was saved- ironic isn't it?
my brother and his family have been back in Graham for a couple years now and have changed...before leaving for Graham, he was open to discussion regarding the obvious problems in NTCC, now he refuses to discus it. He refers to blog posters as "liars" and refuses to read them himself
(sometimes i will read them to him (particularly Greg and Deborah's, he knows their character personally) and he will listen- i suppose this is a good thing?!
i appreciate alll of you who post, keep on!!
T
Perhaps those who have not gone through the ntcc experience should still post. By sharing your Christian experiences outside of the ntcc cult, you could dispell the ntcc lie that they are the only right organization, the lie that they are the last move of God on earth (as they have said repeatedly over the years).
People in ntcc seem to be under a spiritual mist or fog that renders them incapable of critical thinking. I'm not speaking of criticism. I'm speaking of the ability to analyze facts. ntcc has many intelligent people who refuse to see the truth.
1-It is impossible (a lie) to say you never miss the Holy Ghost and then turn around and change (compromise) every major doctrine in your organization. God is not willy-nilly double minded or foolish.
2-It is impossible to say you love someone and cast people out to live in the street and threaten church members with excommunication if they help those outcasts. If we say we love, we must demonstrate love through actions. If we do not love the Christians, we can not love the Christ Who dwells in them.
Perhaps simply sharing how you attend a church where homeless are helped or where Christians help one another or where financial transparency or even transparency of life is shown might help those in ntcc to realize the ntcc fear doctrine of no other Christians outside ntcc is a lie.
ntcc people should be able to reason that out for themselves but seem to be bound by an absolutely demonic spirit of fear dressed in robes of religion and piety that keeps them from seeing the truth on their own.
But a gentle or tender question might get the ball rolling, plant a seed of hope for the millions of folks who are not in ntcc!
Perhaps prayer too for God to enlighten their eyes, open the hearts once again to the Truth. Prayer for Christ to bind up and cast out the spirit of fear and the ntcc doctrines of devils.
They certainly have placed these men kekel and davis on the throne of their hearts. Jesus would not act as those men do, yet the members blindly follow these men.
It is a spiritual problem that must be fought with spiritual weapons such as prayer and scripture (the sword of the Lord is the Word of God).
T has encouraged me by stating he / she reads every day. Good. It's good to know there are concerned folks who act on their concern (not mere lip service as the ntcc parasites / leaders are famous for).
Keep reading! Pray. post? I think it's all good. Especially prayer.
"WHATEVER! Dude you are out there............." ... Former Graham Lay Pastor's assessment of aPreacher.
TC says,
PREACH!
Oh, and check out MY profile...
Don't want you humans thinkin' you've got the market on bloggin'!
Lurch
Child molestors beware, some men (and lizards) still care what you do to little girls...
"we remonstrated with them about what they were doing" ... Vic and and anonymous brother who tried to get (legally adults) michael c. kekel and phil kinson to stop pawing underage (minors) girls tanya davis and debbie johnson while making out and then bragging about it to the fellas in the bible school dorm.
And people say chameleons are creepy!
To Vic and the Anonymous Brother:
PREACH!
TC
Playas then, plays now, can I get some milk from dat cow??? Umph!
"The thing that disturbed us the most was that when we remonstrated with them about what they were doing, they got defensive and told us right upfront that they didn't plan on repenting. That sent the other brother over the edge, so he narked them out. But nothing came of it, and they're big wheels in the org now." Vic talking about how r.w. davis pimped out his daughter, tonya davis, when she was a minor and promoted her groper, micahel c. kekel to be the next President of the ntcc! And debbie johnson's groper, phil kinson is a big wheel in the borg too. (I've seen the 4th of July photos on kekel's blog, and he really is a BIG wheel!)
Hunter O says,
My kinda playas! Nothing like squeezing the little chicas kn*ckers to get some action in your boxers. You go Playas!
HO
Oh! And if you got it that good when you are on the ground floor, just imagine the action you're seein' now as BIG WHEELS. Yee-haw. Can I get a witness! Or at least a free feel?
Sex Offenders looking for a fast-track promo join ntcc.
"kissing and groping a young teenage, when you are a mid-twenties man, is wrong (dare I say illegal,
People are legally pronounced sex offenders for less.
It makes me skin crawl to try to imagine having any type of intimate relationship with anyone under 18 when I was 26. Really anyone under 23.
This is yet another NTCC account that is inexcusable at every level. No justification could make this right." ... Gregory's take on kekel molesting a minor when he was an adult legally and then ntcc promoted the guy to President of ntcc; much to Gregory's chagrin.
TC says,
PREACH!
Lurch
"Sorry; just don't want to be accused of fabricating anything. Kekel's 'denial' certainly was doubletongued, and shouldn't be afforded much credibility, as you accurately observe." ... Vic
TC says,
PREACH!
Warren Jeffs, eat your heart out. ntcc is close on your heels...
Vic said ... "Part of the problem was the NTCC culture, where young girls are continually groomed for early marriages. RW's position was that once a girl attained childbearing age, she was marriageable from a purely biblical standpoint; only those pesky laws of man stood in the way, a position he also held with regard to polygamy (except for ministers, who were to be the "husband of one wife"). Not too different from Warren Jeffs, really." ... Vic
Anonymous said... "ntcc's president a child molestor
michael c. kekel groped tanya when she was a minor and he was an adult. child molestor." ... and
"ntcc promotes gropers? Sounds like the guys running the show must have been the same type of horn-dogs to not be bothered by it." ... and
"Maybe their offspring, the next generation of ntcc will be lining up for the privilege of illicit sex with their perverse leaders. It's not hard to imagine with the precedent being set in prior generations and girls already lining up for the privilege of doing every other domestic duty for the kekels.
Perverts!" ... Anonymous
TC aka Lurch the Church Lizard says,
PREACH!
Lurch
PREACH... Not much else needs to be said when it comes to asking what kind of group promotes child molesters... Can anyone say CULT?
Warren Jeffs Eat Your Heart Out INDEED!
I was just checking out the TC profile, complete with audio clip and had tears streaming down my face I was laughing so hard! I guess you's got to Respeck the preacha even if he is a lizard! And that line about gettin' your goat, that should be in the jargon thread on Jeff's blog! What a hoot!
But I guess with all the disgusting truth coming about about kekel and davis, we need some comic relief.
Way to go boys, uh, chameleons.
PREACH!
Ange
Uh, Hunter, I love your audio clip; but you need to back away from the chicas Dude. You are one sick playa! Besides them being underage there's that whole inter-species barrier thing. Or there SHOULD be.
Ange
That crude line about the boxers reminded me of the Hastys and Ludwigs helping us Bardens move from Louisville, KY to the ntcc Campground. I had piles and piles of boxes and Tim Hasty quipped that they should start a moving company called "Angie's Boxers" -- oops. Man did his face turn red! Ha Ha. No harm done. It was innocent comic relief.
Ange
Was looking over T's comment again. Have to amend my statement about how many concerned parents came to check on their sons at Ft. Bragg during my eleven months there:
5 families came to check on their sons of the 22 guys living in the two houses there with the Taylors directing the work. I forgot the one brother's mom and aunties (?) came to visit him. They were Christians so I didn't feel quite the burden of prayer I normally got when family or folks who didn't know the Lord were in church. Nice folks. Sorry to have forgotten them in my first remark.
Ange
>>The watchman of Ephraim was with my God: but the prophet is a snare of a fowler in all his ways, and hatred in the house of his God.
>>They have deeply corrupted themselves, as in the days of Gibeah: therefore he will remember their iniquity, he will visit their sins.
Hosea 9:9+10
"...bragging about it to the fellas in the bible school dorm."
It actually was in the car on the way to or from class or church.
Vic,
This is a great way to get ready to receive something from God in a church/classroom setting. Silly me, I prayed, read my Bible, and reviewed my notes. No wonder the NTCC leadership has such a superior walk with God. As is evidenced by their very public conduct.
Gregory
Amen...
Yo, Hunter!
Larch wanted me to ask you to not use his line anymore. I mean, give a lizard a break. He's doing good just to say that much.
And Ange was right, "back away from the chicas Dude" that whole inter-species thing creeps me out but especially when they are underage minors!
Gotta go
Scoot
AMEN!
Scooter's right, Hunter. You should not be squeezing any youngsters kn*ckers!
I know you're a mod rad lizard with mad cold latent skills, Playa, but chicas need time to grow up before they get felt up! \pardon my french/
Take a clue from Giz. He at least repented when Al's Gal called him out on that crack about iguanas d*ing it outside. You know. He apologized and changed his profile. You could change too. And an apology never hurt anyone.
No hard feelings, HO. Come over some time and we'll do up some T-bones and Gevalia ala Hunter.
Later.
Shaky
Thanks, Zeek, for noticing. I'm not a bad lizard, I just struggle with impulse control. Well, until my master got me a mate. He's a pretty good match maker and I'm one blessed thumpin' lizard gizzard for sure.
So whaddaya say, Hunter?
Giz the Liz
You guys are sissys. I told you nobody does it like I do!
Zeek, you really are a geek.
And Giz, you're no Liz. More like a sissy salamander.
You can keep your old T-bone and Gevalia. I'm heading to the Space Needle after I finish with this chica at the Starbucks.
HO
Well, I'm not surprised at HO's response, what with his name and all. But I guess now you guys, Zeek and Giz, know how I feel!
It isn't easy bein' green!
EZ
Come on EZ, lighten up! Everybody goes through bad times. I'm sure it wasn't easy for Shaky, growing up with a name like Zeek the Geek. And Giz has shared how he struggles. Me, I've got back problems. Why don't you stop whining? If you were a leader you would be doing great, but you'd get better!
Hunter, when it comes to chicas kn*ckers, take a clue from Larch's profile and remember:
Can't Touch This!
or else the Judge will give you some real
Hammer Time
when He lays down the gavel and sentences you to hard labor making big rocks into little rocks for molesting the chicas.
Scooter Piety
PREACH!
AMEN!!!
I'm not gonna repent you sissys. You all are just jealous coz
I'M TOO SEXY for you sissys, too sexy for you sissys, YEAH, I'M TOO SEXY!
HO
Isn't is ironic that there's all this mess just because some fella wouldn't wait until the chica became a legal adult? I mean, the title of this story is "Please be patient =)"
Maybe it will get even more ironic.
Maybe the chicas daddys will promote their little girls molestors to be the President of and Board Member of Their Business Organization... [CEO of the TBO?]
That's beyond ironic. That is moronic! But I guess if its been done before, it could happen again.
My Gal was right! They give canines all the bad names:
You
dirty dog
horn dog
EZ, you've got my empathy. I kinda do know how you feel.
Al
Talk about whining! Al, your no Mad Dog. Your just a pitiful pup. I think your whipped! Your gal wears the pants in the family: Sit, Al! Sit! Fetch! Roll Over! She's got you on a leash and that really is the tail wagging the dog!
HO
Who let the dogs out? Nobody. They're just in kennels begging for scraps to fall off of my table! I'm eating T-bone steak at the Space Needle tonight. And I ain't gonna bring you now doggie bag! Unh...Playa Power!!!!
Think I'll put in for that job. Sounds like a good slot for the Old HO. OUT!
I can not believe what I am reading here! Hunter, you are shameless! I have been called a lot of things in my 65 years, but never, never, a slimey salamander! You old crocodile!
I AM NOT SOME APOSTATE AMPHIBIAN!
I thought you were my friend! I even invited you to dinner. Now I understand what the Bible said:
"He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."
"He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him."
I wish I never knew you!
Shakin' with passion
Shaky aka Zeek
But this was typical of the overseers, to say and bring down people to others so that there was no respect at all.--xo
I've seen that behaviour too xo. I was in the kitchen of the Lodge with verna and jlj's wife, this other (4th) lady was there too; but she left to go do something.
As soon as she walked out the door, verna and jlj's wife were giving each other looks, rolling their eyes, shuffling feet... They were not impressed with her enthusiasm; instead they were making fun of her for it; expressing disdain or despising her for it...
Let's you know:
IF THEY WILL DO THAT TO HER, THEY WILL DO THAT TO ME TOO.
Pastor's wife? Board member's wife? Why not pray and thank God for that lady and her enthusiasm?
Why not be enthusiastic yourself?
Why be mean about it?
Is that would Jesus would do? I bet He would hug her and bless her.
But what do I know. I'm just another lowly peon worker's wife like that lady who they were making fun of. I think she's still slaving away for them too 'in' the ntcc... Sad
Angela
Accountability must work both ways.
God makes promises and keeps them.
ntcc demands absolute loyalty from workers to ntcc.
ntcc is not loyal to workers.
That is very ungodly.
Accountability should work both ways.
ntcc leaders should be accountable to the ntcc workers.
But ntcc is not accountable to the workers; nor will it ever be so.
Leave ntcc.
Ange
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